40 Comments For This Post

1. Erik Hare Says:
   September 17th, 2007 at 8:47 am

   I found this one under “Writer/Editor Needed” as a gig in Chicago:

   “Only candidates with excellent people skills, diplomacy, intelligence and stylish appearance should apply.”

   People skills and smarts I can handle. Diplomacy? Stylish appearance? If someone can give some insight into this one, I have to say that I’m as curious as a cat.

2. Phil Says:
   September 17th, 2007 at 9:16 am

   Stylish appearance requirement knocks me out — ask my kids.

   However, it does make sense if for GQ or some other pub/site that might require such knowledge or meeting with interview subjects or end clients.

   Dimplomacy could be a misnomer for “knowsw how to work in a corporate culture,” or “knows how to work with clients of our firm and executives within it” or some such thing.

   Or the item could be as confusing as you indicated.

   Heck, there was one a couple of weeks ago looking for a full-time employee “who must smoke and must be an omnivore — no vegetgarians” I sent that one along to a lot of my friends to get a laugh from.

3. Jodee Says:
   September 17th, 2007 at 9:20 am

   OK, I’ll bite. Diplomacy would come into play if you needed to deal with other people as part of the job (other writers or interview subjects, say).

   As far as stylish appearance is concerned….I remember seeing one gig in my travels where the person wanted to hire a writer/pesonal assistant-type. So if you are doing go-for things, you need to look presentable.

   Does that help?

4. Jodee Says:
   September 17th, 2007 at 9:29 am

   Phil,

   It looks like we were both composing our responses at the same time, LOL!

   The ads that make me shake my head are the ones asking for “talented writers” - as opposed to what? The ones who can barely string two words together?

5. Sarah Says:
   September 17th, 2007 at 10:28 am

   LOL, Jodee!!

   Good luck with the writing leads gang!

6. Kathy Says:
   September 17th, 2007 at 10:53 am

   Different subject…does anybody have any idea on the going rate for a blog job? I have been contacted by a company that wants me to blog 8X per day (56 per week), but the pay is only $1,000/month. I’ve never done paid blogging before, but this seems ridiculous. Thoughts?

7. Mariella Says:
   September 17th, 2007 at 10:59 am

   How many words should one blog post contain?

8. Amy Ulibarri Says:
   September 17th, 2007 at 11:05 am

   I blog a 300+ word post twice a day and make a little less than that! I would see if you can renegotiate for more money or just don’t take it. That seems like too much work for $1000. Of course if they are only 100 words or less, then it might be worth it. Is it a topic that is easy to do and to come up with that many posts per day?

9. Phil Says:
   September 17th, 2007 at 11:22 am

   With the caveat that I’m a traditional writer and haven’t seen yet where blogging would present an income opportunity that would outweigh what I’m doing already or the opportunity cost of marketing myself during down times.

   That doesn’t mean the opportunity doesn’t exist, and it might be more attractive if I hadn’t built my business to where it is today.

   While I think that amount looks very low, like Amy says, I don’t know that it’s low for someone who’s still building a base. Once you build a good base to pay the bills, then look to replace low-paying clients with higher paying ones.

   But if you don’t “need” the income, consider if you would be better taking that gig — attempting to negotiate for a higher rate as well — or to spend that time actovely seeking better opportunities.

10. Kathy Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 11:22 am

    Thanks for the help.

    It’s medical and I do know a lot about the industry. Still, it takes a while to organize my thoughts. I inquired about word count, but they weren’t sure yet (supposed to talk again tomorrow). I also inquired about pre-write, post later.

    They want to use the blog for SEO so I’m not sure if 100 or less will be an option (although that sounds good to me). We just lost a huge account ($4,000 + per month)so I would love the steady work right now. I just want to make sure I am getting fair market value for my time. Anything else I am missing?

11. Erik Hare Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 11:35 am

    Kathy and Phil:

    I had a slow period in the summer, so I looked into blog writing and related work to keep me going. I honestly wound up feeling that my time was better spent chasing down traditional gigs that I had less of a chance to land. For me, traditional is mostly grant writing, so I wound up talking to a lot of people that had little money, and I found a strategy for landing some of them that I never had before.

    I understand the interest in trying to get anything into the door, as I’ve done it. I still do some real estate blogging for pay. But it’s so incredibly small compared with any traditional form - technical, grant, magazines, even community newspapers.

    Heck, I managed to land $1.00 per word for a one-time gig writing for the U of Minnesota alumni mag. That sort of work is out there, and while it’s hard to find it’s not impossible.

    Think of it as playing the Daily 3 Lottery versus the Powerball ticket that is writing a novel. You may want something coming in the door, and that’s reasonable, but if you’re sure that these things will never sustain you it’s best to spend the time digging for something better.

    Blogging really doesn’t pay anything close to a living wage. Unless you’re really fast, most blog gigs are below what you can get waiting tables. Unless you have reason to believe there are other benefits to the blog, such as future employment, you’re probably better off waiting tables and having more free time to chase down lucrative contracts.

    My few pennies worth, anyways.

12. Mariella Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 11:37 am

    For some mainstream topics, $1,000 a month for that number of blogs with, say, 50-100 words, would be a fair rate. However, since the topic is medical and you have to invest considerable thought into every post you make, it is a bit low.

    In the end, it’ll be all up to you since you seem to want a steady paying gig as of now. You may take it up for now until you find a better-paying one.

    I’m sorry to heal you lost a big account. I’m sure you’ll get one as good later.

13. Kathy Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 11:52 am

    Thanks for your advice guys. I can see in talking it through that I don’t think it’s a great fit for me, but I am feeling a bit desperate (worried, nervous, anxious). I do have other great clients that pay me excellent money to write for them (just billed $9,350 for a 20-page hospital recruitment piece). It just seems the projects are too few and far between (and I really loved having that steady paycheck). ;( I’m going to see if I can negotiate to 4 posts per day for the same fee. Otherwise, I’ll pass. Thanks again for listening. It’s nice to speak to someone other than my dog. LOL.

14. MIcah Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 12:28 pm

    I have yet to catch a blog gig. It’s good to know the ongoing rate though.

15. Phil Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 12:38 pm

    Erik,

    I agree that I have yet to see where blogging makes more sense than spending time marketing other services, but I think that there is a business to be had there for those who dedicate some time and effort and are willing to wait for a payoff. Deb seems to have done this.

    If one has enough other work, spending a little time blogging and learning that market could lead to profitable blogging in the future. The big thing is getting to learn the business through networking with others who are sucessful at it as well as those who are skeptical (to get a realistic view).

    If things were different this summer (trying to sell the house), I might have devoted some time looking into blogging beyond just what I read here.

    But I would not have done that to the exclusion of other marketing, which has landed me several new clients lately — four $1,000-a-month ones in the last four months — an opportunity that I would have missed if I spent the time looking into blogging. The blogging research and actual blogging itself would have had to come during other time (the time trying to keep the house presentable to potential buyers — very hard with two teens).

16. Phil Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 12:46 pm

    Kathy,

    Big ones will tend to be few and far between — just the nature of the beast. I look for big ones, but make sure there are enough small ones to fill when necessary.

    An entrepreneurship program I was involved in — and a one-time client — recommended having no more than 20 percent of business with one client (even 20 percent can be too high, depending on one’s business). That way, loosing the client won’t hurt too much.

    Of course, the better paying the client, the easier it is to have too large a percentage of business there. This also points out the need to continue marketing (this is also a note to myself) — clients will leave for a variety of reasons and you may jettison some clients for other reasons.

    Best of luck in replacing the one that left.

17. Allison Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    Kathy,

    Also ask who owns the content. A lot of blog companies only ask for non-exclusive content for a month, and then after that you could resell everything…so if that’s the case, it might be worth your time.

18. MelissaO Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 1:19 pm

    A couple of comments.

    First, I think that the ad for a content writer for a prominent online magazine is being spammed all over Craig’s List. I found the same posting on Rhode Island’s Craig’s List and when I emailed them for more info, I received an auto-response directing me to a URL which doesn’t exist. Hmmm….

    And Erik, I always read your posts with interest because I envision myself being a freelance grant writer when I grow up! Well, not really when I grow up, but when I get enough experience working on grants at my paid job to go after freelance gigs. But when I see orgs looking online for grant writers, many seem to think it’s acceptable for the writer to work their payment into the grant proposal, which is so not kosher. Do you ever find yourself educating organizations about this misconception or do you generally work with people who are well aware of the need to either pony up the $ at the beginning or find some person to volunteer their time?

19. Misti Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

    Hey, I checked out the “Content Writing for Popular Websites ($70-$100 per week)” listing, and the response information rather notably avoided answering my questions.

    In fact, I think it’s a scam. I couldn’t find ANY reference to the company with Google, and what freelance writing job demands $10 training materials?

    -Misti

20. Jodee Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 1:31 pm

    Misti,

    Run like a thief in the night from any job that wants you to pay for training materials….

21. Mariella Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 1:31 pm

    I learned this one from Jenn Mattern: NEVER pay a potential client to hire you. It should be the other way around.

    Jenn would be proud of me :p

22. Erik Hare Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 1:43 pm

    Phil:

    Yes, there is a difference between writing for someone else’s blog and having your own. The former appears to always be low paying, the latter seems to work for some people. Certainly, I’m all in favor of the workers owning the means of production.
    MelissaO:

    There are other versions, but I like this one best and refer people to it:
    http://www.grantprofessionals.org/about/images/codeofethics.pdf

    16-19 are the hot ones. I tell potential clients that it would be unethical to do otherwise. Note that you *can*, and I *do*, accept part of my payment based on a successful award. But it has to be a fixed amount that is part of general operating expenses for the organization.

    Have I lost business this way? Oh, yes. Not a lot, tho. It all works out.

23. Katharine Swan Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    Kathy –

    I don’t care how many words the posts would be, it’s not enough. As you pointed out, just organizing your thoughts will take some time. You’re looking at less than $5 per post, or — to look at it another way — $1000 per month to do a full-time, professional job.

    It’s not enough. Not by a long shot.

24. Kathy Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 3:52 pm

    Good advice, Katharine. Any thoughts on what a good blog rate should be?

25. Katharine Swan Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 4:06 pm

    Kathy –

    It’ll depend on what you want (or need) to get per hour. I can usually write a good, average length (i.e. 300-350 words) post in about 30-45 minutes. Since my goal is to get all of my work above $30 per hour, I typically quote $15-$20 per post. At the very least I would recommend that bloggers accept no less than $10 per post.

    If you need to perform blog maintenance such as moderating, reading, and responding to comments, submitting the URL to blog directories, and posting links on forums and other blogs, the time required to do these tasks should also figure into your rate calculations.

    The problem is that many small-time businesses see blogging as cheap marketing. However, that’s only true if they maintain the blogs themselves. Why they think it should continue to be cheap marketing when they decide to outsource it is beyond me.

    Personally, I don’t think the rates should be that much different than writing web-based articles. It’s all content, yet rates that we would laugh right out of the water if it were for articles are somehow deemed acceptable for blog posts.

26. Kathy Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 4:22 pm

    Thanks, Katharine. I really appreciate your time and info. I usually bill $50-$65/hour and it takes me about 45 minutes for 300 words (although I always thought I was slow). LOL. I guess I was thinking some money is better than no money, but even at four posts per day I’d be losing out (did I mention they are all on different subjects?!?). Desperation does strange things…

27. Phil Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 4:29 pm

    Kathy,

    I usually figure 250 words an hour, with the idea that I research/interview for 30 minutes and write for the next 30. More creative writing (PR is about as creative as I get) takes longer.

    I remember reading that Robert Bly charges something like $200 an hour, and all of his writing is advertising related — so he’s not cranking out copy at even half of these word-per-hour rates.

28. Kathy Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 4:40 pm

    Thanks, Phil. Good info on Bly. I mainly do collateral writing for medical (ads, brochures, articles, etc). Also do some real estate and misc.

    Some projects go very quickly (newsletters/articles/fast fasts). Other stuff definitely takes time (concepts, names, etc). It’s nice to hear how long it takes different people to write different things. It’s also an interesting way to bid and keep track of my profits.

29. Katharine Swan Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 4:40 pm

    If only all of us could be as rich and successful as Robert Bly.
    I can easily do 500-600 words in an hour if the research isn’t heavy. Work that requires more research is more in keeping with Phil’s 250-words-per-hour range.

    When I write basic content (i.e. SEO articles and blog posts) I usually do enough research to ensure my work is accurate and appeals to the basic web surfer. For more specialized articles, I hit the books a little harder.

30. Katharine Swan Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 4:43 pm

    Kathy –

    Yes, desperation does strange things! The biggest problem with taking time-consuming, low-paying jobs like that is suddenly you don’t have the time or energy to look for the better paying work you need.

    You might try negotiating. You could always tell them that you’d be happy to blog for them for a grand a month — but at the pace of two posts per day, instead of eight.

31. Phil Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 4:44 pm

    For any newbie’s, check out a couple of Bly’s books on writing. I read one 15-20 years ago. Some of his recommendations/advice then still make sense now.

32. Katharine Swan Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 4:48 pm

    I have read three or four of Bly’s books, and I have another sitting on my shelf of library books, patiently awaiting its turn. He is constantly revising and republishing his books, and I have always found them to be quite helpful!

33. Misti Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 4:59 pm

    I do know to run from “pay for training materials” jobs, but I wanted to make that obvious to everyone—and now I can add that it’s an autoresponder reply.

    Personally, I tend write around 350 words in an hour, though I also tend to cut 50 (and sometimes 100) of that by the end of it.

    -Misti

34. Phil Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 5:21 pm

    Katharine,

    From your posts, I don’t consider you a newbie. That was more for those just coming out of or still in college. I never read books like that in traditional journalism classes. Though I did a lot of outside reading, it was all in the TV arena (degree is in Radio-TV, though I was involved in journalism via the school newspaper at the same time).

35. Phil Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 5:22 pm

    Cool,

    I just tied Deb, and it’s her site!

36. Katharine Swan Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 5:28 pm

    LOL, Phil — thanks. Neither do I, but I was a little greener when I read several of Bly’s books (last spring or summer, I think?). Mainly my point was that I definitely found his books useful. I’m seconding your recommendation.

37. Mariella Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 6:41 pm

    LOL Phil, congrats on the post count
    Katharine>> I absolutely agree. Low-paying jobs could make ends meet, true, but they sometimes curb career growth because you might find yourself too exhausted to pursue higher-paying gigs.

38. Mariella Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 6:42 pm

    BTW, Thanks for the Robert Bly book recoms. I’m actually going to splurge on books so I’m going to keep his books in mind.

39. Phil Says:
    September 17th, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    Mariella,

    Bly’s books are good, but they are very industry-specific. I’ve found a lot of other valuable information in other business books that didn’t mention a writing career.

    But I was also involved in an enterpreneurship program that basically taught everyone running a business runs into the same basic challenges — the idea being take business basics from other successful small business people and apply them to your own businesss. Harvey McKay’s Books are excellent, as are success-oriented books like Think and Grow Rich, 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, etc.

    Heck, even some of Tony Robbins stuff is good as long as you realize he’s always trying to sell more books and tapes.

40. Mariella Says:
    September 18th, 2007 at 9:48 am

    Thanks Phil, I’ll keep those those in mind
    I think I do need to work on my marketing techniques. So far, I’ve been doing good on my own and I’ve never had a dry spell for two months now. However, I do seek growth proactively.

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