Pay $10 a Month for Work? Not On Your Life!
January 9, 2008 by Deb Ng
Filed under Freelance Writing
Every now and then a company called “Articles and Content” advertises on the WAHM.com (Work at Home Mom) WAHMs Who Write forum. There’s always controversy and sometimes it gets ugly. Here’s why.
Articles and Content requires their writers to pay a $10 fee each month in order to get work. While some writers are questioning why anyone would pay to work for a company, others are defending the “administrative fee” because they earn a couple of hundred dollars each month on a regular basis. I worked in corporate America for 20 years and another 8 as a work at home freelancer. Never in that time have I been expected to pay anyone for the privilege of working for them. And what exactly is an administrative fee? Shouldn’t Articles and Content charge enough to their clients so all administrative costs are covered by their clients?
If you go to the Articles and Content Website you’ll see they charge clients $10 to $20 for articles. This of course means the writers aren’t earning very high wages for the majority of the articles, especially when you consider A&C needs their cut. My suggestion to them would be to stop making writers pay for their inability to charge enough for articles.
I don’t care if it’s $10 or $100 no one should have to pay a client for work. It’s wrong, it’s insulting and it’s unethical.
Discuss…
UPDATE: Further investigation shows the $10 monthly fee doesn’t guarantee a job. It just allows writers to look at the job boards and apply for said jobs. So you might pay the monthly “administrative” fee, but never actually land a gig. Writers don’t get a byline for their $5 per article, $10 per month fee either. Draw your own conclusions.
@James – The owner of A&C said she has to charge writers $10 in order to cover her costs. She pays editors to edit each article, she has fees for depositing money and she offers discounts to the client. So she’s charging the writer to cover her expenses. Why should writers have to pay for editors and Why should writers have to pay because she’s offering discounts to her clients?
For the record, I don’t believe in paying fees for job boards, bidding sites or any of that. But to have writers cover your costs is unethical.
@James – She’s charging writers to keep her clients happy. Instead she should be raising her prices and keeping both writers and clients happy.
I’m sorry if I came across as “a little bit mean.” One of my buttons got pushed: It ticks me off when people make the argument that low-paying or unethical jobs are okay simply because boycotting them won’t make them go away. In my opinion that’s a really weak argument for accepting work that is demeaning and/or unethical.
And yes, I do feel that A&C is being unethical. Mind you, if you were paying a fee for a respected membership and high-paying leads, that would be one thing, but you’re not — you’re paying for the right to do the same low-paying work that can be found on almost any job board.
I think the question for me would be: By paying this monthly/yearly/per job fee, am I getting something that I can’t find elsewhere for free? If I can get access to cash cow jobs by paying a fee, then I see nothing wrong with that. But regardless of how the fee is defined (administration fee or whatever else), I see no point in paying for the privilege of staying at the bottom of the totem pole.
Finally, James, when I was explaining the difference (as I see it) between A&C and bidding sites, I was actually referring to bidding sites that don’t charge an overhead fee: Anyone can browse jobs, and the commission on each successful bid is the only thing you pay. That’s the only type of bidding site I have experience with.
@Deb, I think you’re right with your definition, but I would add that she’s charging writers to keep her clients happy and still be able to maintain her profit margin. That’s what I think is unethical — she’s essentially robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Not to mention, it’s a really BAD business model that requires you to charge your service providers in order to stay afloat!
I guess I don’t even know what the 10 dollars is used for, whether it is a membership fee or an administrative fee or whatever – and frankly it has never mattered to me. I just see it as an expense of the job. Someone on the WAHM board mentioned that 10 dollars a month is less than you would pay in gas money to go to and from work each day for a full time job. Or you could look at the cost of eating out for lunch if you worked somewhere outside of your home – probably more than 10 dollars a month. Or – 10 dollars a month so that you can stay home with your kids instead of putting them in daycare – or so that you have the time to cook your family dinner instead of buying them take out. If you stop focusing on what the 10 dollars is exactly used for, and look at the pure cost to income ratio of it, it is hardly a drop in the bucket. That’s how I look at it. Ethical by everyone else’s standards or not, I can make peace with it.
LOL Well, I never said that the method of A and C was particularly smart or one built on succesful growth. It’s rather stupid, actually. Better writers equals less overhead equals more money and profit for both business and writers and a happier clientele.
@ Deb – Okay, I understand a little better. You have issues with all methods of working that make writers pay a fee, not necessarily only A and C. That makes more sense.
@ Katharine – Someone up there said it best (sorry, can’t find the comment!). If it saves time searching for work and helps connect client money to your pocket while also increases your potential for future work, I think a fee is worth it. Think smarter, not work harder.
But of course, if you can get the same thing – less work, more clients, more pay – without paying a fee, by all means, free is the best way to go.
Thanks, everyone, for putting up with me and being patient while I figured out where the real issue is.
Seems to be that a poor business model is the root of cause.
Jame’s first post on this subject is so true and is the only way to determine if the job is right for you or not.
Yep, I agree. Poor business model. They could always charge the clients a dollar more, but instead they choose to charge the writers.
@James> I’m sorry, but I don’t see the potential for future work in this. The way I see it, A & C is an outsourcing company, not the client. The writers won’t know who the clients are. I’ve worked for outsourcing companies before for around 6 months (no, I didn’t pay any type of monthly fee). They did put money on my pocket but no subsequent work resulted from my time with them.
For everyone who thinks A&C works for them, then good for you. But don’t let your employment with them keep you from finding higher-paying gigs for FREE.
Well put, Mariella!
Thanks Katharine
Well, based on observations, there are those who’d totally forego networking and trolling for job leads when they see writing only as way to make “extra money” and an opportunity such as A&C’s presents itself.
Some become afraid to jump ship even after they find higher-paying gigs because of fear that these new gigs won’t have a constant flow of work like what A&C can offer them. The result is that they miss out on great opportunities because they become afraid to take risks. Of course, what I’m saying is only based on my own and my friends’ experiences. It might be different for others.
You’ve got to evaluate your stand. If you forego finding higher paying gigs or find yourself missing out on good ones because you’re working for A&C, then you’re paying a LOT MORE than just the 10 bucks required of you to work for them.
I guess it all boils down to your end goal as a freelance writer and of course your current needs. I do think however, that many good and resourceful writers won’t last long with them the moment these writers realize that they could write for more without paying 10 bucks per month.
Some become afraid to jump ship even after they find higher-paying gigs because of fear that these new gigs won’t have a constant flow of work like what A&C can offer them.
I think you’re exactly right. It’s scary for many writers in these situations to exchange security for fair pay.
This I think is especially meaningful:
If you forego finding higher paying gigs or find yourself missing out on good ones because you’re working for A&C, then you’re paying a LOT MORE than just the 10 bucks required of you to work for them.
Beautifully said. Seriously. That’s one of those discussion-ending statements — because what else is there to be said once that point has been made?
Just something that strikes me as odd is their payscale and maybe someone can help me with this: as of Nov of last year here is the payscale I got as a response to my query to them:
[QUOTE]We have a small administration fee of $10 per month to be paid on the first of every month, to cover costs such as editing.
Writer’s payments are as follows:
Prices:
Up to 250 words – $5 per article
250 – 400 words – $7 per article
400 – 600 words – $9 per article
600 – 800 words – $11 per article
800 – 1000 words – $13 per article
- Wage Payment is made every Saturday by Paypal although all articles must be in by Friday noon GMT time.
- We must emphasize that these articles are for the web with the primary consideration being keywords so please keep the keyword ratio in mind when writing articles.
- We have a strict 48 hour turnaround on all articles and if late we will terminate your contract with us, as this may loose us clients.
- We do expect you to take articles that you have no knowledge about the subject as most of them you can simply use search engines for research and content, this will include subjects such as gambling.
- I must at this stage stress that under no circumstances will we accept copied work, absolutely no plagiarism. We do have a tried and trusted way to find out if you do and your membership will be terminated.[/QUOTE]
If they are paying $5 for 250 words, how many hours do you have to write to earn the $800 – $1000 a month. to me that seems to take a lot of time away from family plus the burn out factor. Not only that but I was a huge part of the discussion on the forum and I still think that someone who wants to pay me $2 for a 400 word rewrite AFTER I PAID $10 just to see the low paying offers ought to have their business plan examined (I was going to say “head examined but that wouldn’t be PC would it?)
Anyway – it seems that paying someone $13 for 1000 words barely covers the fee they require and then we still have to cover OUR cost of doing business… The math just seems off to me.
For me, ( I have been working there for a few months) the majority of the projects have been in the 600 and higher word range. so, once I have written one, I have covered my monthly fee. If i am only writing 600 word articles at 11 dollars, that is less than 20 articles per week for me. There have also been (lately) many projects that pay 20-25 dollars each. when I am doing those, I can do 8 of them and have 200 in a week. Both of those scenarios are very easy for me to do. I personally can make the 800-1000 per month working about 10 hours a week for A and C. that’s just me though, and that is why it works for me.
@ Nikki – OUCH. Is that what they pay? Screw that; ditch the job.
@ AC Supporter – If you’re making that kind of money in ten hours, you’ve discovered the secret to Superman. And not in a good way.
@ Mariella – Just in case you were lumping me in with “those who’d totally forego networking and trolling for job leads when they see writing only as way to make “extra money” and an opportunity such as A&C’s presents itself,” I thought I should clarify something. Because I am exploring a discussing and viewing all sides to make an informed choice on my opinion does not mean that I’m only out for a fast buck. I wouldn’t want to be painted black for trying to see all sides. Guilt by association doesn’t exist in Canada.
@ Katherine – There’s always something more to be said
I think it isn’t so much the fear of exchanging security for fair pay. I think it’s fear of the unknown and fear of failure.
I can write fast, and I can write well at the same time. That’s what I do, and that’s how I make the money that I make. That is why I can afford to take low paying jobs and not work around the clock. It’s just what I do.
Its no superman or anything like that. And it certainly IS in a good way, both for me and for my clients. They enjoy the fact that I can write quickly, and write well. I am often approached for “right now” type of projects – someone backs out on 20 articles, I can do them in a day. Its part of what I do and what makes me sell-able, I guess. And also part of what makes A and C work for me in particular.
@James> I’m not lumping you with anyone. As I said, I was making a generalization based on observations and personal experience. Just to make it clear, none of my comments are aimed at you or any other person in particular, other than that comment telling you that I don’t see the possibility of getting future jobs out of this. You didn’t even cross my mind when I said that.
I think I understand the A&C writers’ side more than majority of the people posting on this thread do, having worked with outsourcing companies before, myself. The only difference between them and me is that I never paid a monthly fee of any sort for having had the privilege of working for my erstwhile bosses.
@ Mariella – Thanks. Gotcha. And you’re correct – no outsourcer charges fees.
@ AC Supporter – I won’t comment on my opinions of that quantity of writing in that period of time, unless you’re working about 10 hours straight with no breaks.
Thank you for not commenting, James, as it is impossible for you to tell the quality or quantity of my writing simply by knowing how many articles I can do in what period of time. I have always been a fast writer, fast reader, fast talker. I believe that people should play to their strengths and do what they are good at. That is why I am in this business. I have methods to my researching, methods to my writing, and the ability to do it quickly, cleanly, and well. Therefore, even when I’m doing articles at 5 dollars each, I’m probably doing ten of them an hour – meaning I’m working at 50 dollars an hour. A and C is perfect for folks like me, and we make it work.
@James>> Thanks and sorry for the misunderstanding.
****
To prevent being misconstrued, please note that when I say I make generalizations based on observation, I meant observation as a whole and not an observation of this thread. I network extensively and have seen lots. Writers and data entry personnel WOULD pay to get work. Some get scammed, some don’t. Some would kill for the amount those who don’t get scammed, earn.
And as for the comment that there are people who are afraid to jump ship out of fear, I could say that because I’ve experienced it myself. It wasn’t pretty, but I was finally able to and I’m sure glad I did.
Ten an hour? Holy…poopysnake.
Holy poopysnake is right. 10 articles an hour seems just a little ridiculous to me, even if someone is a super speedy researcher, thinker, and typist.
Even if someone has the ability to do that, why would they want to? How can that be considered “light work”? Sure, I guess you can make $50 an hour writing 10 $5 articles, but you can also make $50 an hour writing two $25 articles.
I used to write for A&C and am neither an avid supporter nor a bitter basher. I simply discovered, after writing for them for almost a year, that I was wasting my time (and money, with the $10/month fee) there, and moved on.
@ AC – At over a proclaimed 91.6 words per minute (non-stop, 1 hour), you should perhaps contact Guinness and give the current typist a run for her money.
Most writers need half an hour to write a good article, and more if it’s to be high quality, backed by research and stats – and most importantly, if it isn’t rewritten or plagiarized off the Internet.
Of course, those who scrape content, rewrite, and pass it off as their own can certainly write faster than that.
Immunity to Kryptonite does come in handy, though, I suppose.
It takes a while to submit my articles although I’m knowledgeable about the topic. (I’m receiving my Masters Traditional Naturopathy.)
The articles I write are related to alternative health; however, I still need to back up what I know with facts so I always refer to a variety of sources such as books, internet, and professionals.
I have to say that the idea of bidding for jobs is totally repugnant to me.
Obviously, the client will go for the lowest bidder, which usually turns out to be an Indian who will do a 1000 word article for $2.
And for those bidding sites that charge a fee for membership…even worse!
These are unethical.
And the whole bullshit story about how paying $10 for guaranteed work is ‘ok’…well sorry but that is unethical from the A and C provider’s point of view.
Punishing writers just cos they need their costs covered?? That is utter balls.
If none of you writers took the pitifully low-paying jobs and conditions that are ethically questionable, there would be plenty of higher paying work for everyone cos the lower paying providers would be pushed off the scene.
It is people like acsupporter that keep wages lower for writers. We’re all trying to make a living here ya know! Your gullability and lack of your own standards just makes things worse for everyone else.
James – I think that is another good point. What kind of articles are these people rolling out? Crap articles will get you nowhere apart from going from one crappy paying, low conditions job to the next.
Wake up people!
@ Sarah – You may have a predjudiced opinion of bidding sites. We get some work through those, and we don’t work for less than $60 an hour. There are definitely bidding sites that don’t pay (Get a Freelancer, anyone?), but there are some that have a reasonable clientele who understand writers need food to live.
It’s also inaccurate to make sweeping statements that all buyers on all bidding sites always award only to the lowest bidder. Not true. Not true at all.
I don’t see being charge a membership fee as unethical. Don’t golfers pay membership fees? What happens when it rains all summer and they can’t golf? It makes sense to pay for a premium service. It’s deciding what benefits you get from that service that determine its worth.
But I’ll agree with everything else you said
@Sarah- I for one have written for A&C and I will have you know I do not put out “crap articles”. I for one research my articles before they are written. As for the low pay, it might low to you, but for poeple who are looking for more pay than the $2 and $3 jobs, this place beats them thumbs up.
Because of their opportunity, I have further my own writing career to include writing for myself and advertising my services. If I would not have spent the last few years building a reputation for myself, I would never have been able to get my career off the ground.
Not everyone is born into making top dollar off the bat. I have listened to many recording done by some off the most successful website owners on the Internet and they did not start off rich, they had to pay people to do things for them and many times give their products away free or at a huge discount to grow their business.
That being said, this is exactly what A&C offers writers. A chance to make money that is acceptable and gain a style of writing before being rejected over and over again without knowing why.
They do give feedback and support to the write, which is needed to become successful. No one starts out successful, not anyone, I do not care who you are, you need a start somewhere.
“@ AC – At over a proclaimed 91.6 words per minute (non-stop, 1 hour), you should perhaps contact Guinness and give the current typist a run for her money.
Most writers need half an hour to write a good article, and more if it’s to be high quality, backed by research and stats – and most importantly, if it isn’t rewritten or plagiarized off the Internet.
Of course, those who scrape content, rewrite, and pass it off as their own can certainly write faster than that.
Immunity to Kryptonite does come in handy, though, I suppose.”
Well, of course now. This is why it does no good to discuss things rationally with most of you people. I try to explain to you why it makes sense for me to do what I do. And what do I get in return? Sarcasm, insults, and jokes at my own expense. Is it any wonder that I came into this discussion without giving my real name? You’d have to be stupid to comment a major dissenting view under your own name here. You guys are so set in your own ways and believe so much that the way you do things is the only way to do them that as soon as someone presents a view that is different from your own you must knock them down, accuse them of either cheating or doing the job poorly, and tell them that not only are they shaming themselves by working like they do, but they are also damaging the profession.
Pamela, thanks for your logical thoughts on the matter, you are absolutely right.
I don’t think we need to be insulting towards anyone working for A&C. It may not be for all of us, but we shouldn’t knock the people who choose to work there. My issue is with the fee, not with the people writing for the company. A&C Supporter ,again, I appreciate your passion and your loyalty and I apologize for many of the remarks made here.
Please. Let’s be respectful. Just because we don’t agree with someone doesn’t mean we have to be insulting/
Thank you Deb, you are right, if you want to discuss the fee, that is one thing, but for someone to insult the writers who they do not even know, or know how they work, is not an active discussion about the fee. It is insulting and it is what ruins a topic of discussion which normally lately leads to no good.
My apologies. I could have perhaps worded my comment differently.
Just wanted to point out about James’ note about WPM speed – the current record is 192 wpm, held by Natalie Lantos, from 1998 (from one source) and another lady with an average of 150wpm over 50 mins, steady at 170 and highest at 212wpm. 91.6 wpm is no that fast…I type faster than that, recorded. I average out at 100 wpm because I type differently than most. My fingers are always on the right keys, but I NEVER use the backspace button – I keep typing. I spell check, review and edit when I’m done getting out what I want to type. My brain works far faster than my fingers, but by ignoring spelling and or misplaced letters, I can type faster and fix it with spell check at the end. =)
@ Just Another – The average speed of a regular typer who is transcribing and not creatively authoring is about 60wpm (prepares for someone to check his stats) on a QWERTY keyboard. Anything over 90 is moving like absolute lightening. Possible? Certainly – not for the average person. For 10 hours straight? Torture.
Note that both of the typists that you mentioned were using a DVORAK keyboard and not a QWERTY layout. Big, BIG difference in typing speed.
But it’s still damned fast
@ACsupporter- I only said ‘Holy Poopysnake’, stole a nice word from my daughter.
I’m shocked, but I have done content writing and have a system for research as well. I can do 25-50 in one night and I have a client who can back me up on that. Most were 500 words. But, 10 an hour struck me as superhuman and caused the holy sheet exclamation. No insult meant.
@Everyone else- I mentioned trying out a bidding site just to see if I’ve been too predujiced in my views. I joined yesterday an with this experiment I’ve already landed two new clients who want me to take over long term assignments. Surprisingly, I was the lowest big on one and in a PM worked out a higher fee than my original quote. Both clients mentioned my style of writing compared with others as a selling point. Plus, this is where I asked for a deposit for good faith.
I will have to pay a small commision, but in the end, I may stick with this site to fill in those gaps in the month when I need cash. The good thing is I can just do an initial bid, accept payment through their escrow, then afterwards work more assignments from the same clients on MY terms without commission. For now, this is looking lucrative.
At least, until I get my name in lights.
Erm, sorry for the typos, it’s pretty late. Must remember to not comment during sleep deprivation.
I see so many slamming not only the writers, but also those offering jobs for the content writers. My thoughts in a nutshell are these:
1. If the pay is lower than what you feel you need to survive – don’t take the job.
2. If you’re feeling like you are getting the bum end of the stick – quit – go back to a nine to five job.
3. Not all organizations that offer web content (written by writers for them) are scum. The few that I work for are fair, honest and have a lot of integrity. If you’re not smart enough to figure out who the good guys are – you have no business working in this market.
4. Pay an administrative fee – nope, not me. There are jobs out there where you can write and get paid without paying anyone for anything.
5. You rail against the $10.00 an article pay – but here’s reality – I work, maybe 4 hours a day, 5 days a week (20 hours total) taking jobs like this. Where has it got me? Well lets see, in the last year – a decent used car, a new laptop, diapers, formula and clothes for my grandson oh and money to blow on eBay. Not bad – couldn’t make that kind of money working part time in the brick and mortar world, for sure.
So my suggestion is this – if you don’t want to do content writing, fine – don’t do it. But don’t blast those that do – most of us are doing just fine, thank you.
I need Home Base work now