Underbidding – What Do We Think?
January 22, 2008 by Deb
Filed under Freelance Writing
A couple of the regulars mentioned in the comments about applying for gigs advertise here only to find the client informing them they didn’t get the gig because other writers are bidding lower than the advertised offer in order to get the gig.
What do we think of this?
I’m having mixed feelings. Part of me wants to scream and lecture. How dare they underbid? Don’t they know they’re driving down the rates? If a client is offering $100, why would anyone bid $20? I don’t get that part. We’re always talking about making more money so why go so low?
On the other hand, maybe it’s the only way a newer writer can get noticed. Maybe this writer doesn’t have enough faith in his or her ability to compete with all of the other writers. Maybe he feels the only way to get noticed or get the gig is to underbid. I’m not condoning it, but I can see how this can happen.
If you underbid, here are a few things to keep in mind.
- Don’t bid yourself too low. If a gig pays $50 you don’t need to offer $10. $35 or $40 might still be enough to land the gig.
- Use your lower rates to build up a client base then stop underbidding. Once you have enough clips it should be enough for you to raise your rates and bid what the client is offering.
- Consider whether or not you want a reputation as someone who will work at lower rates as the rest of the world. This may help you land gigs, but you might not be able to land higher paying jobs later.
I think when people contact a client and offer a lower rate than what he originally advertised, they don’t always look at the big picture. If you bid $10 now, will your client go for it if you ask for $50 later on down the line? Look at all sides before making a low ball bid. Make sure the gig is worth the low wage and that you’ll be ok with being seen as someone who will always bid lower than market rate.
What are your thoughts? I’m very interested.
John, you are so right. I’d rather work for free for a good cause than for $5.00. I am fairly new to this and honestly, I thought I was seeing typos when i first started reading the posts
Looks like $20 for 400-500 words is good money. That’s hard to fathom, but I guess its about production. Just curious if anyone knows anything about “fair blogging” and how it shakes out compared to other blogging jobs that pay a staightforward, albeit low, amount. Great info here, thanks so much!
It seems to me that a lot of underbidding comes from outside the US/UK/Australian market. If you happen to live in India and feel your English is up to par, I guess it makes sense, because the cost of living is so much lower in some countries.
As far as the discussion regarding petrol prices. That is goods, not service. writing is a service, not a commodity and there are many different levels of quality.
If it turns out, for instance, that one of these gas companies was watering down the gas by 10% that would explain the price differential.
So unless an employer thinks that all writers are the same and write the same quality content, it makes more sense to look at it from the perspective of paying more for a better service.
@ Mark – Whether it is a good or a service makes no difference. There are varying levels of qualities in all products, from furniture to food to articles to theater productions. It makes no difference for the discussion, which is comparing pricing for like-quality content.
@ Loretta – Whether $20 for 500 words is good money depends on whether you are a web content writer or a print publishing writer. (It’s still on the low end of things even for web content, in my opinion. But getting there ;p)
@ Robin – Thanks! (That was a great comment, too.) And I’ll go take a look at your post right now.
It says a lot about the client if the client is going to only look at the lowest bid and not the best fit for the job. Very often, you get what you pay for, especially when it comes to writing. They’re not always mutually exclusive, but when you look at web content — let’s face it, more often than not,you can tell who hired it out for pennies.
The plus that comes out of being underbid that I sometimes experience is that the client calls me, a few weeks later, in total panic because the first cheapy writer screwed up so badly.
And, if I take on the clean-up job, it’s for a higher price than my original quote. I am a big believer in aggravation fees, late fees, and all of that. Bad choices cost money.
Anyone here think we could/should start a internet/freelance/telecommute union? There must be a way to set a certain standard of writing and pay.
Sarah, An Internet/freelance/telecommute union would be interesting, but I doubt it would work any better than any other writers’ organization.
Writers are like farmers, I think. We all complain – justifiably – about the price of our product/service…but we never organize to change the situation. I grew up on a farm in ND and I remember my old Pop and his fellow dirt stirrers grousing about the government, prices, weather, machinery costs, etc. But surest way to get ejected from our place was to tell him what to do, what to raise, or how to vote.
Maybe it’s not such a bad thing that we can’t get organized. We are, after all, in a kind of solitary business. There is an independent spirit that exists in freelancing, one that not everybody is ready for. Let’s just quit taking jobs so low-paying as to be humiliating and concentrate on building more lucrative markets. The $50 “big-money” jobs will always be there to distract the less-skilled, less-experience writers…which leaves the rest of us with a better shot at the better work.
Hey, I just read this discussion and realised that someone mentioned that ‘India or some poorer nation’ might charge lower. I’d just like to enlighten that person that I’ve been writing for the last several years, have 5 books published of which two are with Random House, US. My experience tells me that $4 for a 400 word article is an extremely poor rate here and often, so is $10 (more so with the dollar at its lowest at present). So please, please remove these misconceptions that Indians would work for any rate to get a job.
Thanks!
My response to a potential client who says I was underbid is always, “You get what you pay for. You want my talent, skill, and experience, you pay for it. You want some newbie who doesn’t know ulna from anus, you pay a lot less and you get exactly what you pay for.”
Incidentally, one time, I was in the feast upswing of the feast or famine mode and I couldn’t do one project I had on the front burner. I offered it to an acquaintance who was trying to get started at a wage she was happy to take. I paid her what her experience was worth figuring that at least I could use her research. Nope. The research was shallow. The writing was poor. The girl was a nice girl and I sure did want to help her get her start. I paid her what we agreed upon, but I couldn’t use a stitch of what she wrote. I ended up having to do it myself after all.
You get what you pay for.
I had another thought, after my first post. SOME buyers will use the “you’re underbid” to see if you will drop YOUR price. It’s a well known gambit.
With more than 50 responses to this post, it’s pretty obvious that getting screwed on payment is a hot topic.
I think we might be missing the point when it comes to low pay. Shouldn’t we be fishing for larger fish? If there’s nothing but minnows in the pond, it’s time to look for a new pond. My friend Peter Bowerman wrote a book called The Well-Fed Writer. I’m not sure if I’m allowed to plug a pal’s book, but it’s a very useful tome on the care and feeding of a commercial copywriting career. The pay you receive for a commercial job (which might not be as much fun as a magazine article or short story)can be in the thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars, depending upon your reputation and experience. Knock back a couple of them and you can do all the five-buck stories you wish and still have a healthy bottom line. My point is this: We’re never going to convince a tightwad that he/she should be paying more than $50 for our skills and attention. And we’re never going to organize writers to the point that we bring the tightwads to their knees. We should, therefore, find clients who do not need convincing, who already know the value of good writing. They are out there. It’s our job to find them.
Actually, I think the comments got way off topic as far as the original question and post is concerned.
The issue didn’t involve low pay. It involved underbidding to land a contract. That can mean just a few dollars, really.
If I bid $550 and my competitor bid $525, that’s underbidding. Nothing wrong with that; that’s business.
The discussion of my competitor bidding $5 is a whole different ball game.
“Whether it is a good or a service makes no difference.”
Of course it does. You’ve made the point many times that if someone can get the exact same thing for less, they should. Of course, this is a very subjective service- not a bottle of olive oil. It makes a huge difference.
If I could get a pair of 501s for less somewhere, I’d buy them for less. If I could get a web designer, writer or photographer for less, I’m certainly not going to choose that service based only on the lower price. If you think all writing is the same, you might want to take a look here: http://outsourcemess.com.
@ LS – Read what I wrote again. Please.
I did not say that everything is always equal. I said *IF* they were equal – and yes, equal quality writing does happen. Equal apples happen and different quality apples happen as well. Whether it is a good or a service makes no difference in the question of pricing for *LIKE* items of *SIMILAR* quality.
I did read it. I’ve seen you make the same comment at least three or four times before. But, it’s still not a real-world comparison. There are so many freelancers out there that finding two or three who are of a very similar quality would just be too time consuming, reducing overall profits and productivity. Thousands of people answer these listings. Imagine going through them over and over again to find a few that are exactly equal in skill and then going back and forth between them to get the best rate.
The best that most people looking for a freelancer can do is to offer a price and choose the best freelancer they can at that price. But, if you believe that so many people are so equal in skill, why do you charge so much? You’re basically saying that no one should hire you. And, $20 is not at the low end for Web articles. It’s pretty mid range.
@ LS – Selective reading, assumptions on what people think or believe and reading too much into things twists up words pretty nicely. No offense, but you’re putting words in my mouth.
And the discussion has gotten way off course.
No, I read what you said. I also read it on webwritinginfo and here quite a few times. You’ve made the same case many times, and I do understand English quite well. There’s no reason for anyone to make an assumption when you already clearly stated your position. I just happen to disagree, as is my right.
@ LS – Chill. My position is that I think undercutting within reason is part of business. My position on pay rate is that $20 is lower end, yes. I’ve never mentioned my own rates, and I’ve always said flexible rates are fine and that sometimes, people do what they have to do.
I’m not sure which position I’m supposed to be defending here, sorry – you weren’t clear. If you disagree, great. That’s fine. Everyone’s allowed to disagree. (As I mentioned, I’m not sure what you’re disagreeing with.)
But I will say that trying to make me look bad, overpriced or attempt to hurt my business isn’t cool. Not at all.
I never tried to do anything of the kind. I just pointed out the chain of logic from your own posts: plenty of writing is of comparable quality, businesspeople should pay as little as possible for comparable quality, and that you charge more than $20 per article. The logical conclusion from that is that people should pay less than that and get someone just as good.
I don’t agree with it whatsoever- that’s what I was disagreeing with. Writing is too subjective to be able to make comparisons like that. Businesspeople should have a rate in mind and get the best they can for that rate. I have no idea what quality you offer and I don’t know anything about your business. Everything I said was based directly on your own posts.
@ LS – Despite the fact that I’ve never mentioned my rates online ever, and despite that you’re making some pretty wild leaps, I think you have it in a nutshell.
Go ask most businessmen today the same thing: If you could buy two similar products and pay less for one, which would you choose?
I assure you that if they say the higher priced one, they aren’t a very good business.
I am a businessman and an entrepreneur as well as a copywriter. I see both sides of the coin. The worker wants more for less. So does the buyer.
There is a problem with this? You disagree with the principle of more for less? You propose that both buyers and writers should have a less for more mindset?
That makes no sense at all.
Hate to say this yet again, but unless you are getting paid more than, say $50 per piece, you’re really loosing a great deal of money writing for the web.
One article I wrote for my own blog four months ago took perhaps half an hour to write, and has since earned me over $35 in advertising revenue. Project that out over the next year, and well, you get the idea.
Anyone writing for websites and getting paid in the 4 to 5 dollar range is essentially lining the pockets of the site owner many times over.
Here’s my rule of thumb, which you’re free to ignore, unless you’re writing for a major market (and earning major dollars) when it comes to web writing, you’re better off going it alone.
@HerBlogginess, you have a very valid point. That’s why I never go for low paying gigs! I feel some people are just out to take full advantage of writers and, of course, if there are some writers who are prepared to write for say $5, $2 or even $1 per article, then the company is laughing.
Like other writers who have said, if you’re looking for experience then why not apply for a voluntary gig and get some good, solid skills behind you and in some cases, a big company name.
Hello!
I’m from India, and a successful freelance writer for the past 6 months. At $5-6 per article, I will get a response, at $50 I won’t. As simple as that. And mind, I am not a low quality or a ‘late submitting’ writer… over 30 clients have testified to that now. The fact is that there seems to be a misconception that people from countries other than US, UK and Aus do not deserve that much, even if they write top quality.
I’ve done a few PR for $50 per piece, and still got repeat clients, but then again, in a competitive workplace, that doesn’t always work. Do you think people would mind getting $50 instead of $5?
Underbidding, the topic of this particular thread, I am against as well. If there’s a range specified, bid at the bottom end if you want to work cheap, but why underbid?
“There is a problem with this? You disagree with the principle of more for less? You propose that both buyers and writers should have a less for more mindset?
That makes no sense at all.”
That’s all very simplistic, and I don’t have the time this week to continue to explain my position. People don’t get more for less. They get less for less. It does make sense. Many thanks.
Honestly, it has never occurred to me to bid lower than what is quoted as the rate. For me, it is a matter of ethics, but I can also see the other side of the coin for those who feel that for whatever reason they need to stand out from the crowd of applicants by being the lowest bidder.