We Get Letters
February 19, 2008 by Deb Ng
Filed under Freelance Writing
Thanks for all your wonderful letters. Believe it or not, I read them all. Unless they’re rude, I either answer them here or in person. The mail has been piling up lately, so I thought it would be a nice time to answer some letters. It’s been a while…
Hi Deborah,
I’m a bit new to this whole freelance writing thing. I recently had a falling out with my first regular client and I’m really regretting my decision to dump him. He was paying me $16/hour to write an excessive amount of copy including, blogs, web content and the task of ghostwriting his books and writing script for v-logs…I felt like I was being taken advantage of…ie. sorely underpaid…am I right? And if so, what should I be charging? I’m a hell of a good writer…I want to be paid what I’m worth!
Suggestions?
Thanks a bunch,
Sarah C.
Hi Sarah!
I’m not comfortable telling another writer what to charge. We all have our own reasons for charging what we do. If you feel $16 an hour isn’t enough for the work you put in, by all means raise your rates. Did you discuss raising your rates with your client before you dropped him? Sometimes clients are more accommodating than we think.
When figuring out what your time is worth, think about how much time you spend on the average product. Include research, writing, editing, phone calls and everything going into an hour’s work. If there’s a lot of work involved, you’ll want to charge accordingly. For me $16 per hour is low for all that copy, but in some areas of the country $16 an hour is a decent rate. What works for you?
I know that’s vague, but I don’t believe it’s up to me to tell someone what to charge. I can give you some things to consider and you can take it from there.
Hope that helps!
Deb
Deborah:
A sports writing gig that advertised on your site turned out to be interesting. At first, the guy told me on the phone that I would be paid depending on how well I write. Then, he told me in an e-mail that I’d receive a byline and "exposure" for what turns out to be a new Website, but no pay. With that, since I’ve done this for eight years and have received as much as $850 for a freelance gig (gotten from your site), I declined.
I have a college friend who’s a staff writer for People magazine. "George" tells me that free writing should be done very sparingly, if at all. His feeling is that if you have experience, you should not have to write for free. He also said that prominent publications will not give out non-paying assignments.
The question writers have to ask is do the non-paying benefits outweigh not getting paid. For me, my strong preference is in getting paid.
Have a great weekend. And, again, your Website has been an absolute godsend to my writing career (gigs gotten from your site have paid the rent and other bills)
Best,
Richard Z
Hi Richard,
Thank you for your kind words.
The only time I write for free is when I’m donating my time for charity. For instance, I wrote some promotional copy for brochures for a Habitat for Humanity event. After seeing all the corporations and businesses donating time and money, there was no way I could charge for a couple of hour’s of work. Charity work is for a good cause, but it can also lead to other gigs.
Exposure and bylines aren’t worth what they used to be. At one time a byline in a regional magazine or even a local Pennysaver helped to land other gigs. While I wouldn’t take that type of gig for free, I could understand why one would do so. Nowadays, every Tom, Dick and Mary wants free labor for their websites. Chance of exposure for one of these gigs is slim to none and no one of importance is impressed. Even bylines from large sites like Wikipedia and even some paying communities like Asscociated Content don’t mean much to many editors. There’s so much decent paying work out there, even for brand news writers, there’s never any reason to write for "exposure".
For what it’s worth,
Deb
Dear Deb,
Freelance Writing Jobs is really boring lately. You should stop focusing your energies on other blogs and pay more attention to where it’s needed most.
Your pal,
Rick M.
Hiya Rick,
So sorry you’re bored. Are you offering a guest post? I’d love to blog here all day, but I need to pay the bills too. I’ll see what I can do to make it more exciting for you. And if anyone ever has any suggestions please let me know.
Hugs and kisses,
Deb
Thank you so much for taking the time to dive into questions from your audience.. Here’s mine:
What are your thoughts on elance and other sights like that? I’ve been frantically applying to gigs through elance (at a cost, mind you) and are never awarded anything. So when I look back at who got the job, it’s always been (at least in my short time with elance) the person with a ridiculously low bid. Like offering to write 15 — 500 word pieces for $50 or less. This is unbelievable!! What’s a gal to do? I’m not bringing my price that low, thank you. I know your feelings on that. But how do you compete with this?
Thank you for all your help.
–Andrea
Hi Andrea,
We discussed bidding sites in the past. While some of the regulars claim to have great luck with bidding sites, it’s my opinion that they drive the rates down. Moreover, it’s difficult for someone like me to get a decent wage through a bidding site because I’m not yet "rated" with them, even though I have plenty of references and clips.A few times after I offered a bid I was told I had a lot of nerve offering such a high quote since I don’t have a rating yet with that site. It doesn’t matter that I’ve been freelancing for 8 years.
I think there are plenty of great places to find work – and well paying work at that. I don’t see any need (for me anyway) to bother with bidding sites.
Best,
Deb
More during the week…
$16 an hour is great here in Vermont, but with any job, if you are having second thoughts or niggling doubts, I always think it’s better to walk away. I did that a year ago with a client. Her word count climbed from 300 words for $8 an article (articles I could write quickly because they involved travel, my niche) to $$8 for 2,000 word articles that required heavy research. I told her I could do the articles for a much higher fee. She told me that because of our long-term business relationship, she was insulted that I would ask for an increase. So I walked. While I miss the work, I don’t miss the hassle at all!
Good for you, Ann.
I rarely leave long-time clients, but left one I had had for seven years because the work/time required continued to escalate, though pay didn’t. Within two months, the money was more than replaced.
$16 an hour? That’s what an administrative assistant makes. Way to go in leaving. You should get paid what you’re worth and what the work is worth. Don’t put yourself on sale!
When you go to research a big ticket purchase, let me ask you a question. Do you always end up buying the cheapest one? Of course not! There are many factors that go into a buying decision. Your experience, attitude, talent and knowledge are what make up your worth.
A great place to find out what to charge is a piece on http://www.WritersMarket.com. It’s very cheap to join and then you can search for a great article they have posted called What Do I Charge?
The article shows highs, lows, and averages. When my client wanted me to start writing speeches (I had been doing only newsletters), I knew I should be charging more for the speechwriting hours. I discovered that $75/hour was appropriate, a little under average since I had no experience. I had been charging $50/hour for the newsletters. What if I hadn’t researched this? They didn’t bat an eye, especially because I had researched it. If they did a little research themselves, they would simply have discovered that I was charging them slightly below the average — a bargain.
I do encourage all of you to stop putting yourself on sale. Teach clients to pay you what you’re worth. If they won’t pay you market rate or pretty close, look for a different client! If you want someone to paint your livingroom, do you say to them, “I really need you to paint my livingroom. It will take some skill. Tell you what — I’ll pay you less than you would make at McDonalds. That’s okay with you, right?” You wouldn’t expect a housepainter to be okay with that, so why are you?
Sorry for the rant.
Elizabeth
That’s what I don’t get about bidding sites. All the glowing reviews in the world mean nothing if you don’t have five golden stars next to your name.
I am always tempted to give Elance a go, but then I read more stuff like this, and think, Ummm… No, thank you.
I’m so glad to see that opinion on bidding sites. Sometimes during weak moments I wonder if I’m missing out…but stuff like this reassures me I’m not.
I wasted a lot of money on an Elance membership. I just couldn’t bring myself to bid as low as many of the jobs required. Lesson learned.
Wow. I have mixed feelings about what I’m reading here.
@ Deb – Thank you for not telling people what they should charge. You’re right that in different areas, different wages make good money. Comparing a decent salary in Quebec goes out the door when that same salary and job comes from California. With the economy low, $16 an hour isn’t anything to sneeze at for many people.
True, though, that a writer doesn’t feel comfortable with that rate, by all means, ask for more. Like Dr. Sears says, “If it’s not working for you, change it.”
As for job sites and bidding auctions for work, telling people not to use them may be doing them a disfavor. It’s important to note that those sites work very well for some writers and don’t work so well for others. It’s a personal thing and depends on how well the writers sells himself or herself.
For driving rates down, instead of bashing a place that can save writers time by collecting available projects, why not fight more for writers setting decent rates for themselves? It’s not the job sites that drive rates down – writers do that really well all on their own.
I’ll wait to see what others say, but somehow, none of this post or beginning conversation made me feel very comfortable. We’ll see what comes up.
@James – I do fight for writers to set better rates, as you’re no doubt well aware. And it’s the writers offering .50 cents an article who are driving the rates down on bidding sites.
I’m sorry you’re uncomfortable. I only mentioned my experience – though I did note that many of the regulars have good experiences with bidding sites.
I can’t give them a glowing review because for me nothing positive came of them. If someone else has a better experience, I hope he or she will let us know.
@ Deb – That’s fair. Personal experience does make us speak up and speak out, and I’m certainly no different there. I’m also of the view that if something isn’t working but has strong potential, then find the way to make it work before ditching it completely. But I like to experiment, so… there ya go.
I think many people who try out bidding sites don’t follow the best methods for capturing the buyer’s attention. I know one writer who earns her sole salary – and a very good one – on Elance alone. She started low to build reviews and raised her rates slowly. When she wasn’t getting awards, she studied why – and it wasn’t her writing skills or the buyer’s choosiness. The problem was with her marketing skills. So, she learned to market herself effectively (something that many writers have trouble with) and is now doing very well.
The writers who offer super cheap rates are just… well, disgusting, honestly. And not very smart, because if they did the math, they’d realize they’re losing money, not making it.
However, the buyers who want cheap work are only looking for that – cheap work. And for every buyer who wants crap quality, there’s a buyer who wants good quality.
Diversification also helps. Looking for article work might bring low pay. Spread out into copywriting or into web content for sites, where the rates are higher. Learn new ways of writing, new styles, and new areas.
Job sites can work, if they’re used properly. Also, discriminate. Some sites are absolutely terrible to use.
That’s my two cents on using job sites. They’re simply tools to reach the ends. Certainly not the be-all and end-all, but good options to look into for many people. Try, experiment, and decide then.
@ Deb again – I guess what makes me most uncomfortable is that you’re seen as the go-to gal for strong advice. As such, it’s important to be careful, because many people eat up your words like the Voice of God. Goddess. That’s a great thing, sure. I like being the Voice of God and all, too. But we have to remember we can influence many people easily.
Meh. I’ll go have more coffee. Have I told you lately that I really like you and your site? I do. Smile.
James said:
What I like about this blog is how Deb tells us she’s not an expert and asks everyone else to offer their input. I don’t think we look at this place as having all the answers. I come here to get a balanced point of view. I read what Deb says and I read the comments. After that I make an informed decision. It’s all part of the research process.
I think Elizabeth makes a good point about researching the market, then determining what works (she charged less than average for speechwriting due to inexperience).
Rates that are too low mean, as James says, you are actually losing money…Time spent on super low-paying (definition is up to each person) jobs is better spent looking for better paying ones.
During very slow times I’ve taken on low-paying projects just to pay the bills, but even those paid well above some of the rates that have been mentioned.
But I’m the majority financial support for the family, including health care, so I need to make much better than some of the rates bidding sites offer, otherwise I’d be better slinging burgers at (insert fast food name here).
On the other hand, I don’t have preschool children like some others here. I agree that the time spent with children in those years makes finances a secondary consideration, though necessities still must be covered.
@ Kate – That’s great, and that’s as it should be, but unfortunately, that is not the case for a wide number of readers.
Deb’s blog is one of the first they find on the ‘net when they fall into their new career of writer, and as such, they are inexperienced in reading internet content with a critical eye.
Most new writers look to Deb as an authority – despite the fact that Deb clearly and often states she isn’t the only opinion or view out there.
If everyone made informed choices, much of the crap content and poor blogs out there wouldn’t exist. They do, in industrial quantities – and they survive, believe it or not.
Like Phil, I’ve taken low paying jobs to get the bills paid. I’ve been bashed for doing so on other freelance sites. That’s one thing that amazes me. People feel they have the right to verbally accost someone for posting they’ll take a low paying job without knowing a thing about their background. I’d never dream of walking up to a stranger and telling them off, yet online it happens ALL the time.
In the end, freelancing is all about YOU paying the bills. It doesn’t matter what others think. I actually used guidelines for pricing found online and was laughed at by the company. Other times, I’ve priced what I would make an hour.
I saw one post saying $16 an hour is what admin. assts make. That may be true of where she lives, but in Northern Vermont an admin asst. is lucky to get a job for $10 an hour. I left one making $8 an hour 10 years ago which was incredible pay. The woman that holds that job today still talks to me from time to time. She makes $12 an hour after 10 years.
As a writer, there is always a fear of selling myself short, especially if I want to be taken seriously. Personally, I believe that a writer should charge what he or she thinks they’re worth. I am very reluctant to low bid to make bills. I would prefer to work part time to suppliment my income, and then use my extra time to submit high quality copy to those that know the difference.
Ann G.,
Though I’m in a higher paying market (Chicago) than you, I still look to clients on the coasts where rates are higher. I did that even before I used the Internet to submit items. You may find concentrating work searches in areas with higher rates could pay off for you.
I agree with Phil.
There is good work out there and people willing to pay for it. Desperation could be a writer’s downfall.
Phil,
I do that too. In fact, one of my biggest clients was from San Francisco and paying $80 for 1,000 words, but they sold to an east coast competitor this December, which put me and another 20 or so writers out of a job.
I’ve also had it backfire because everyone heads to the saturated markets and offer rates far lower than what the person was advertising. So they’ll email me back and say that they received a lower bid from a person who told them they’d overpriced themselves, would I be willing to go lower.
Right now, I just finished a magazine job that paid far more than average (not to mention my 11 year old was THRILLED that it meant dragging her on a clothes shopping expedition as research) and I have three other steady jobs that pay me far more than my husband earns after 27 years on the job – and he has a degree while I do not. So I’m quite happy. (Though I’d be happier if the stinking price of propane would go down under $5 a gallon already. And the media has been wondering why the number of residential house fires has skyrocketed this winter- DUH.)
I still say in the end, it is all about charging what you are comfortable with and taking jobs that you are happy taking.
Tai G.
I think it all comes down to location for some. A part time job for me – very hard to find when college is in session to start with, but I just looked in my local paper. There is McDonalds, Burger King or the area grocery stores (Hannaford and Price Chopper) – each start at $8 an hour. By the time I’ve driven 15 to 30 miles to get to the store and back, that’s 2 to 4 gallons of gas right there, not to mention the wear and tear on said car since it is winter and road salt and bitter cold temperatures come into play. Public transporation in Vermont is not an option unless you live within 5 miles of Burlington.
I’m selective about the low paying jobs I will take. The last one I took was $9 for 500 words. I was able to do four of them in one hour. That’s far better pay than any area store will give me part time, but low enough that many say you are low pay. And I balance them out with bigger jobs so that burn out is not a factor.
As for being taken seriously, I started out book reviewing. Book reviewers, unless working for a magazine or major newspaper, are not paid. The free book is your payment. I’ve been reviewing books for eight years now and have seen many reviewers get out of book reviewing because there is no pay. I’ve had review quotes show up in books or websites by Nicholas Sparks, Carly Phillips, Michael Connelly, Robert McCammon, Nero Wolfe, etc. So I don’t really worry about being taken seriously as a writer.
As long as you have solid references, they should speak far louder than the jobs you take.
Amy:
If what you do, and the methods you use, work for you, then more power to you. Just don’t be so quick to give your talent away. Consider those words of encouragement and not of criticism.
Please excuse me. My prev. message was to Ann G
I hate to see bidding sites bashed here yet again. There is an enormous amount of high-paying work to be found on them. But, you do need to have a rating to get most of it. You can’t cut to the front of the line just because you have clips. Most people who start there have experience in other writing, degrees, credentials, references, clips, etc.
But, clients like to see that you can work within that closed system- handling deadlines and making the client happy. There’s no evidence of that in showing off a clip. You do need clips to show that you can write, but that’s just he first step at a bidding site. It can be more complicated than a lot of people like, but the pay more than makes up for it.
I think each writer needs to assess his/her situation, including how much time is spent looking for work, writing up queries, etc., and include the cost of those hours in an hourly rate. For me, personally, there’s a lot to be said for steady work that pays reasonable but not stellar rates. My wine columns don’t pay high-end glossy rates, but they are mine and I know I can count on that income each month without having to pitch an idea to the editor.
Someone else might not agree, and feel that the time spent pitching to high-paying print mags is rewarded by the high per-word rates they pay.
When I started freelancing I decided I would figure out how long it took me to research and write 500 words and base my hourly rate on that. I don’t take assignments that don’t meet my baseline requirements. Of course, I’m the secondary income…your results may vary.
There are as many answers to these questions – rates, bidding sites, et. al. – as there are writers. What sets this community apart, in the best possible way, is everyone’s willingness to 1) share info; 2) accept differing viewpoints and 3) help aspiring writers get the info they need, so they don’t have to write 500 words for $1.
@ Nancy – I think you said that very beautifully and very well. Hear, hear.
Yes, kudos on leaving. If you’re unhappy, it affects work quality anyway, but I would try to make sure you had another steady paying gig lined up. I speak as one who just lost a steady paying gig, NOT by choice. I have had tremendous success with ifreelance (three clients found me on there, e-mailed me and paid my fees without a second thought) but I am rated on that site. I just stepped into the world of Elance, where I am not rated – only as a free member to test the waters (just like I entered ifreelance two years ago). This means I can only bid on a couple jobs per month, but we’ll see. I try to get the most bang for my buck out of elance and apply for the ghostwriting book jobs, since there seem to be so many on there.