And Another Thing…
April 23, 2008 by Deb
Filed under Freelance Writing
I have never received a single penny from any company advertising jobs here. Never.
Dear Deb:
Your recent rant reeked with condescension and inaccuracies.
First of all, people are insulted when you “feature” these low paying jobs and give them prominent own posting on your web site. It doesn’t take a detective to realize these companies are paying you for this placement.
There is no going rate on the web? Are you serious? That’s the biggest line of bull I’ve read for sometime. The going rate is about $30-$20 an hour.
This is very condescending:
I want you to make so much money with your writing you can retire at an early age on a tropical island somewhere.
No you don’t, you’re using the jobs as LINK BAIT to draw people and advertisers to your web site so you can make money. How much income others make is hardly on your list of priorities.
Different writers make different amounts just as different programmers, different school bus drivers and different teachers earn differently.
You really do sound like a corporate sell out. Anyone with half a brain knows that’s not true. Go to Salary.com or Payscale.com, there are definitely median salaries for ALL these occupations.
I won’t go on and on like you did, but it’s obvious from your defensive and condescending tone you don’t like anyone who dares to speak up.
That said, please keep it up, I’m building a rival site and will grab these people away from you. I am happy to see you plant as much discontent as possible.
Best Wishes,
Now, I could charge if I wanted to, and plenty of people have urged me to do so, but that’s not why I do this.
Good luck with your new site. I hope it does well and many writers achieve great success with your help.
What the hell!! Whoever wrote that has serious issues with reality. There is not going rate. Life does not work that way.
I am glad that you post the jobs that you do because I have to honest, I applied and got one of those low paying jobs, but after my first set of 10 articles, the guy said, “these are great” and up went my pay because I had proved myself.
Some people offer low rates because they get some people who think they are gods gift to writing and they suck.
Deb and Jodee do not do unjustice to your site and change a thing. I was lucky from this site and I am proud to say, I make enough money to pay a high house payment, bills, have five animals to feed, buy new computer stuff and go out four or five times a month. I eat steaks and love working at home.
I make enough money because I took a chance on a low paying client and it proved to be a delight.
You guys do a great job and what you write is not misconcieved, it is appreciated and read with interest. Others should re-evaluate their way of thinking if they think they are the best.
My opinions!!!!
My spelling sucks when I write fast and get upset. LOL
Deb, you do a wonderful job here… and Jodee!! If someone is not happy with all the hard work you both do to bring writing jobs to this site, then why do they even bother to come here?
I’m sorry you are getting such terrible emails. Your site is very appreciated and all the hard work that goes into it. Thank you!
Actually what I find condescending is when another reader claims to speak for me. I’ve never felt insulted on this site but DO feel insulted by someone who thinks they speak for all of us.
Deb and Jodee – you’re doing a great job.
Those of you who don’t like it, go elsewhere. There’s a whole wide world out there – go find your own corner.
Oh, I have to add this… They are going to build a rival site and grab all of these people away from you? Do they really think that the thousands of people that come to this site are going to suddenly leave you and go to their new site because THEY don’t like your site but obviously keep coming to it? Really…
Touched a nerve, huh? I am a real estate agent, not a writer. And yet, I’ve hired writers.
The fees quoted for my proposed projects have ranged from $10/hr to $100/hr. This leads me to believe there is not a standardized wage scale.
I found the variation in rates to be dependent on experience, the ability to understand the project, and the geographic area of the writer.
If your site does not answer the need of a reader; why do they seek your advice?
Don’t you just love it when people claim to know all about you and your inner motivations without ever having met you in person or even having a conversation with you? “It’s obvious you’re dong this because…..”, and “Anyone can see this is why you do this….” Gah! It’s so infuriating. The world is full of people who think they know it all, but then show just how much they DON’T know by their words and actions.
Like other people have said, if you don’t like a site, don’t read it! But don’t pretend to know the author of that site so well that you can interpret her actions.
Personally, I love this site and have gotten some good work from it.
Oh my. Someone is bitter, and it’s certainly not Deb or Jodee. Everyone puts ads on their blogs/sites (well most do), but that doesn’t mean their endeavors are baiting people to click on links. Maybe Deb should make this a membership site so that those who hate this site so much would have to pay to leave a comment…it’s ridiculous that those of us who visit this site and love it have to put up with people who do nothing but complain about it. If you hate it so much, go somewhere else!
It’s insane that you have to put up with these ridiculous emails.
Quite the display of jack-assery on this person’s part…
Let me say that I only discovered this site last week and absolutely love it. I’m here every day now, checking out the last postings. This is definitely one of the best sites I’ve ever seen. The person who wrote that original comment was incredibly rude and his/her comments were inappropriate in every sense.
If you asked 100 different writers for their opinions on rates, you’d get at least a couple hundred different opinions. Not every writing job is created equal, and as a result most people have different standards for each different type of job they do.
Personally, I don’t agree with the rate on every job you post, but I also think that you weed out the truly insulting ones. I’m not going to bicker over whether $10 an hour is a good wage. It doesn’t work for me, but who am I to make that decision for someone else? I’ll save my ire for the $2 an hour jobs.
Personally, I think that email is rude and real crap. Good on you for putting it where everyone can see the arrogance going on in the world.
Man, people need a damned good dose of reality. I hope your two posts give them that kick in the ass they need.
Deb,
Having been with you since Write For Cash, I know you had no idea what this blog would turn into when you first began it. I know your motives when you started were simply to share what you found with other writers as you were trolling the leads at 4 AM.
It’s grown into what it is because you provide a valuable service to writers by bringing us writing leads and giving us a place to learn a little and socialize a little.
Again, thanks for all you do.
What a load of crap! I’ve read these last two posts, and I’m still amazed at the levels of stupidity and rudeness some people will stoop to.
Deb and Jodee, you’re both doing a fabulous job. I have gotten several jobs from leads you posted here. Some were low paying, some more lucrative. The lower-paying ones were my stepping stones to better-paying gigs.
Keep up the great work. You ladies rock!
Wow, I go out to do some errands and buy groceries, and all this excitement happens…
To the person who wants to set up their own freelance site, good luck to you. The Internet is big enough for many sites geared toward helping freelancers.
Deb,
Good on you for posting that horrible email. This person does NOT speak for everyone on FWJ and the assumptions and accusations they make are ridiculous.
I agree with you that you can’t tell readers what the going rate is. We don’t all live in the US and the cost of living even within the one country varies dramatically. I appreciate that you don’t make the assumption that we all live in the same city with the same financial concerns.
As one of your colleagues, I know that you are a lovely person. Kill ‘em with kindness, Deb– or ignore them instead.
Very smartly-handled. You are a class act, and it’s a damn shame you have to deal with that kind of unwarranted personal attack.
First and foremost, Deb your site is fantastic and to someone who has just ventured into freelance writing full-time I find it to be a Godsend!
Now, to the individual that sent Deb that disgusting email: you claim to speak for many of us here at FWJ and by what’s been posted before me, it’s clear that you are in the minority. Furthermore, you claim that Deb doesn’t like those who speak out when that obviously isn’t the case as she’s allowed your thoughts to be posted here. What I find interesting is your lack of honor in bringing the discussion to everyone’s attention. I think you emailed Deb in private hoping she would feel threatened and unnerved by your claim to start a new site to rival her own. It seems to me that you have no desire to discuss your opinions within these discussions because you know damn good and well that everyone else on this site disagrees with you. Here’s the solution to your problem: if you don’t like the service that Deb provides, stop coming to this site! Simple as that. There is no excuse to send rude emails that offer nothing of value to Deb or this site. If you wish to start your own site then I wish you the best of luck, but offer a small bit of advice – if you truly want to help writers succeed then spend your time searching for the higher paying gigs you allude to instead of sending nasty emails to people who are only trying to help other writers. You didn’t accomplish anything other than making yourself look bad. I suspect that your time would have been better spent working on one of your current projects.
To everyone else, I think the FWJ crowd has been some of the most helpful, respectful, and enjoyable group of people I’ve run across on the internet. The writing market definitely has it’s competition, but I’ve always thought writers were some of the best people – as a general practice, many of them bend over backwards to help other writers succeed by sharing their stories of success and failure for newbies like myself to learn from. What this community has no other can touch because Deb and Jodee bring something that no other site offers – friendship, respect, and the offer of genuine help to writers striving to reach their dreams. I think everyone here is fantastic and sincerely hope that this individual who seeks to create a stir does not cause anyone to think of leaving or make you feel you’ve chosen your profession unwisely.
Just my two cents worth, and now I’m broke
Deb, I know you didn’t post that in order to get people to stand up for you, but man! What a jerk! I’ve only been reading FWJ for a couple of months and I already know two things for sure: 1) You wouldn’t let people pay you to post their job ads here, at least not without mentioning somewhere that it happens; and 2) Posting job ads isn’t really link bait unless you title each posting “Freelance Blogging Writing Job Posting for Freelance Writers or Bloggers Looking for Writing Jobs!” If anything here could account for the fact that FWJ is the first Google hit for “freelance writing jobs”, it’d probably be the name of the site, the URL and every weekday’s listing of job postings! That’s such a weird thing for someone to say. It’s like accusing Starbucks of using its bottled water to promote its coffee.
Also, I’m glad this person told me the going rate. Guess I can stop reading FWJ, you can shut it down and we can all reach out and pluck the $30 an hour jobs.
Hah, sorry, I didn’t expect to get so het up about this!
Just this week I got my first two steady jobs from this site so I’m extremely happy and appreciative for the work that goes into this. When I read the ads, there are usually several that I’m not qualified for depending on the topic or experience, some I may not be interested in general, but still I’m appreciative because I’m sure there is a person out there that is perfect for that particular job. As a newspaper journalist who is new to freelance web writing, it’s taken a while to get my feet wet. Writing for the web is different and this website has definitely helped me learn the ropes.
Oh wow. Some people have so much time in their hands, they can even spare some to write a hate mail! Isn’t it funny that some people think they’re doing others a service be feeling indigant on “their behalf?”
Isn’t it funny that some people just can’t get over the fact that their truth isn’t the only truth in the world?
Isn’t it funny that some people just can’t stop hating on Deb?
Isn’t it funny that some people didn’t even stop to think that that $20 per 650 words offered by LTK could mean the difference between hunger and a piece of bread on the table for some people?
Yup, the world is a funny, funny place. And this emailer sounds so much like a clown. Thanks for the entertainment.
This far down the comments list, nearly everything’s been said already, but I just wanted to add my own support … I’m always amazed that people who dislike a site don’t simply just click away. It’s so simple! I definitely can’t agree with that emailer that there are accurate median salaries for writing on the internet – reasons like the fact that writers are spread across the world, earning in different currencies, working at different times of the day, having different goals in their work are just the beginning. It’s almost a pity, Deb, that you were too polite and correct to tell us who the emailer was – I hope I manage to avoid their rival site. I have a feeling I won’t like it much, anyway.
Wow – what a jerk. I’m sorry you have to deal with ppl like that
Someone must have peed in his Cornflakes.
People like that aren’t worth wasting brain cells over. I’ve never understood why people who don’t like a particular site continue to visit and insist that it change.
I’ve only been on here for a couple of weeks so I can’t comment on many of the things that the correspondent has covered.
However, what speaks volumes is the grammar and factual inaccuracy.
I liked “$30-£20″
oh, and
“there are definitely median salaries for ALL these occupations”
Well, er, yes. There’s an average salary for any job. Wages are dependent on experience, etc and so will always vary.
To coin a native phrase “Blimey, what a twonk”
It takes little effort to click open on a job listing, and if it pays too little, to go on to the next one.
I try staying away from start-up companies and vague listings. That’s me. But a beginning writer trying to get some clips and establish themselves may find those posts worthwhile.
At any rate, Deb and Jodee take out some of the grunt work by compiling listings here, and I thank them. This isn’t the only site I visit, but I can say I’ve gotten pretty much as much work as I’m looking for by visiting here – some better paying than others, but all the extra money is welcome.
My mom, who just started in web content writing, would happily take $20 for 600 words, especially if it’s a topic she’s already familiar with and limited research is required. I, on the other hand, would not be able to take that rate after nearly two years of freelancing (but I DID when I first started out). People DO have different payscales and this person’s attitude just sucks. Deb, I’ve seen others try to do what you’re doing, and I’ve seen them fail. Keep up the great work!! We need you and love you!
I love this website. It’s the first thing I do every morning even before I check my email.
I graduated college december a year ago with a Philosophy degree. I recently just got my second contract freelance job, both through a posting on this website. The first was only a couple months and didn’t pay much, the second is paid per project but comes out to about $20-$25 hourly.
“Different writers make different amounts just as different programmers, different school bus drivers and different teachers earn differently.
You really do sound like a corporate sell out. Anyone with half a brain knows that’s not true. Go to Salary.com or Payscale.com, there are definitely median salaries for ALL these occupations.”
As someone with a full brain (I know, I had it checked out prior to writing this) and as someone with experience in the corporate world (I know this as well because my paycheck says so), Deb’s comment is true. I’m the HR director for an electric motor repair company and so obviously, we employee dozens of people with the same job titles: Mechanic, Machinist, or Rewinder. However, not everyone makes the same amount of money. They all live in the same general area, so standard of living is the same. However, what makes a difference is the experience they have and the education they have. On top of that, you have guys that have 20 years of experience, yet they’ll make the same amount as someone with 10 years of experience because the 20 yr guy has only worked for us for 1 yr, while the 10 yr guy has been with us since he was an apprentice. Then you also have quality of work. You can have two guys who have been with us for 5 years, same experience and education, yet guy 1 will make more money because his quality of work is far superior to that of guy 2’s work quality.
And if you really think about what Median means, it can be misleading. I have 6 employees that make Wage 1, and it is the most common wage on my salary sheet, making it the Median wage. However, 6 out of 100 employees really doesn’t mean that much. Especially considering where these employees are in the pecking order. You’ll need to sell your soul to me to earn Wage 1. So the median wage for my company is NOT a wage anyone could ask for on a resume or even hope for in less than 10 yrs of employment and nothing by above average quality of work.
I suspect a lot of this also plays into determinging writers’ wages as well.
Dear email writer:
I’m a teacher in Iowa. I make only 80% of what other schools in the same town make because I teach at a private school instead of a public school. I make nowhere NEAR the median salary for a teacher in the United States.
I most likely won’t ever visit your website because your insistence that these are “facts” makes you look very incompetent.
So good luck with that website!
I simply cannot believe that people have the nerve to bitch at you for the business decisions you make regarding this site. Who cares if you get paid or not by advertisers, and like it said it is none of our business what you make. I know how much it costs to run a site, maintain the server, upgrades etc in not only money but time, and if you have found a way to easily notify us of open jobs while paying your own BILLS then so be it! Good for you. The people that are nasty are just extremely jealous, rude and immature. Again, I thank you for what you do here and I don’t give a crap if you make 100K a year doing it or if you do it out of the goodness of your heart…OR BOTH. THANK YOU!
Sounds like a troll to me. Some people just love to stir the pot and then sit back and enjoy the commotion. Know that they are in the minority and don’t bother publishing their negative comments as it only fuels them.
Love your site!
Wow…this person is awful! And quite misguided about what a median salary is. Does median not mean that real wages fall on either end, either lower or higher? And that national median salaries use data from people living in NYC (where renting a shoebox can cost $2000 a month) to Alabama (where you can rent a house for $600 a month)?
I agree, agree, agree with all the positive comments and have to add – I don’t really care if you do get cash for adds, links, postings. Your work has lead me to some lucrative gigs and I appreciate it immensly. If you get a little money from that who cares. (I know you’re not doing it and there is an ethical thing … I’m just saying … it’s really none of my business when I use the leads you pay to be posted. For Free.) The really cool thing about life is we have our own free will. If you don’t like it shut your mouth and hit the road. Carry on, Deb & Jodee!
Are you kidding? Where is all this venom and anger coming from?
For crying out loud there are so many other crises in the world, in our towns, in our own lives that warrant much more attention and energy.
Life is too short to even waste a keystroke, Deb.
I think the writer of that email does not realize that websites such as salary.com are not meant to give you the end-all be-all wage for *anything.” In fact, those sites prove Deb’s point, since they ask not only for your job title, but also your zip code, because *different areas of the country and the world have different median wages.* The Internet does not have a geographical location per se and hence there is no going rate for online jobs. It is incumbent on the job seeker to find jobs that provide them a living wage in their area. For some, that is $10 an hour. For some, it is $20 or $50. Rents vary, as do costs of living.
Also, the whole median wage argument is a bit of slippery slope. You could not really go to your boss in a bricks and mortar business and say “salary.com says I should be earning more.” Lots of things affect your wage — how many want your job, your education level, your skill level, your ability to market yourself. Rather than trying to convince your boss to raise your wage based on your salary.com information, you would have better results proving that you are worth more or even looking for a better paying job elsewhere. Online jobs work the same way. If you see a lower-paying job, negotiate the rate or apply for a better-paying job.
/Rant
Hi Deb,
I subscribe to your site but most of the time I’m a lurker. I check out some of the jobs you list but so far haven’t found any that suit me. True, some of them I pass up simply because the pay isn’t worth my time, but I’m a little confused. Why is this person so angry? I consider your website a valuable service. You put together many jobs in one place so it takes me about 30 seconds to review them hwen it would take me much longer if I had to do it on my own. I don’t have to pursue low paying jobs, but maybe someone would. More power to them. Frankly, if you did make a little money off this I wouldn’t be offended. As I said, you are provided a service. In the end, if people don’t like the jobs you list, why not just go somewhere else? Why be so nasty? It seems to me this person is just trying to drum up business and readership. The internet is huge so if you don’t like something, go look elsewhere.
I, for one, appreciate you and will stick around.
Any bumbling fool can look at the housing market as an example and see that location/cost of living affects the value of things. A house in a rural area could go for half of the price of the same house in an urban area. The same applies to a variety of things.
Market price simply means what the market is willing to pay at that point in time. But market could mean the world, the US, a region of the US, a state, a city or even a single household. It depends on the context.
It’s great of you to put together this resource for us, Deb. But everyone should recognize that just because Deb (via Jodee) puts together a list of jobs that fit her wide criteria does not excuse the fact that we must run said jobs through our own filters and see if it is a fit for us.
It’s not hard to discard and move on from the things that do not make the short list. Spending time spewing crap is not productive or helpful.
Washington Independent Writers is having an audioconference about rate-setting on Friday. It’s not cheap, but maybe some folks on this list have enough income to support the fee. You can find out more at:
http://www.washwriter.org/
BTW, I was already benefiting from the job postings on this site, but now I am finding it invaluable for discussions like this. Thanks!
This person should buy a dictionary or at least take 3rd grade math.
Median income means the average income. You get an average by adding up all the wages and then dividing by how many slaries that were used. That means there are some very high above the median and some very low….duh!
I hoped you would make money from this site, it is a very valuable asset to any writer and you put a lot of hard work into it. I check it out every day and have gathered so much courage to write from reading your posts.
I am now working at restaurant reviews and finding jobs here and there. I have fibromyalgia and cannot hold down a full time job, writing has given me a new lease on life and it is a great amount of thanks to you.
Good onya, keep your chin up… you can never please all the people all the time, so you need to do what pleases you.
I completely agree. If someone wants to offer a job for $20, and I am fast enough to get it done in an hour, I just made $20/hr. If it’s not my style or good enough pay for my time, I don’t apply or accept. No big deal. Plus, start-up writers need to get their first pieces published somewhere. I wrote a handful of things for free in college, and they are what launched my career.
At this point, there’s nothing to add, it’s all been said. I wonder where all these morons disappear to when Deb posts their emails.