Wow. Just Wow.
I’m floored. As most of you know, the FWJ Idol contest was created as a way to give this community a chance to pick its newest paid blogger. Today, it was brought to my attention that someone who claims to be a regular here posted a long “hub” about how I’m scamming folks in exchange for free content. The recent gaming of the polls didn’t help matters any.
This distresses me not because the blogger failed to catch the essence of this contest and the FWJ community in his blog post, but because the last thing I want to do is scam anyone. The author, Hal Licino, invited me to respond, which kind of ticks me off even more – why not ask for a quote or comment or my side of the story prior to writing such a negative piece? Isn’t that what seasoned writers such as Mr. Licino do? He chose instead to post a hit piece and then ask for my thoughts -which of course will look like I’m on the defensive. I’m suspecting Mr. Licino needs traffic, and by posting his link I’m sending it his way, but I believe in being fair and presenting both sides of the issue.
I’m also distressed at the responses in the comments from someone who I have had a very respectful relationship with and who is a regular here. Mark Knowles wrote:
I would hazard a guess that like many of us, she is having trouble turning a successful blog into an income stream, and this may have clouded her judgement.
Actually Mark, FWJ is making enough to pay one writer a monthly income and another for a twice-weekly gig. We’re doing fine, but thanks for your continued faith in me.
Now for the meat of the matter, as Hal Licino wrote in his post, the devil is indeed in the details. Since he has been following this contest so closely, I’m sure it’s merely an oversight that he forgot a few key points.
22 Contestants aren’t writing each week. 22 people applied for the job in the comments section of the very first post and 13 made the cut. We didn’t have 22 writers sending in content at all. Not even close. Each week one or more was eliminated. Some weeks two people were eliminated. We are getting ready to eliminate one more this weekend to make it to the final three.
All contestants were (and still are) offered the opportunity to have their content pulled the week after it was posted, after each week’s voting. This is not my content to keep. I do not own the rights and the contestants are welcome to do whatever they wish with the content. One contestant who didn’t make the cut requested removal and we were happy to oblige. Mr. Licino claimed we offered to pull the content after the contest was over – not true. We offered to pull each week’s content after the weekly poll. Since most writers contribute towards the end of the week, should that have their content pulled it would only be up at FWJ for a matter of a few days.
Contestants are given numbers and anonymous names to keep the voting fair. We’re looking for a blogger and it’s not a popularity contest. At the end of this contest, anyone not wishing to pull content will get their byline and a full bio on each blog post including links back anywhere. Our bloggers won’t be anonymous when the contest is over. Some already have a following.
As for the voting, yes we had issues with someone gaming the polls. We’re trusting our community and contestants to do the right thing but there are always those who need to come along and ruin a good thing. We’re hoping that issue is dealt with. The candidates who come out on top are the same ones who always come out on top – even before the gaming took place. We’re confident the best person for the job will indeed be selected.
I can understand how Mr. Licino might think I’m taking advantage of writers. When it comes down to it he’s not wrong about some things. All of our hardworking contestants have entrusted us with their content for this contest – and no, they’re not being paid for it. Their bylines won’t even come until the contest is over. But a sucker trap? I’m deeply offended.This contest was created as a fun way to allow the FWJ community have a say in who its next blogger would be. There’s no hidden agenda. Personally I prefer an uncluttered blog and didn’t like the confusion of having dozens of posts a day (as Jodee will attest).
So I will present some facts and as, always, my community will decide what is fair:
- This blog provides a valuable free service to freelance writers.
- For three years we built this to be a place of honesty and integrity. We dedicated our own time educating writers how to set proper rates and stay away from scams.
- Everything I make in advertising goes to paying writers and for the design and maintenance of FWJ. It always goes back to FWJ.
- The last thing we want to do is take from people without offering something in return.
I said it in the past and I’ll say it now. All contestants are welcome to pull their content at any time. I do not own the rights to your content and don’t expect exclusivity. Jodee will be paid overtime to help me pull content or insert bios and links into contestants blog posts at the end of the contest.
If you don’t think this is fair, we have no problem pulling the content, especially since we don’t own it.
In the meantime I hope you will continue to enjoy our contest, even though there are some who apparantly don’t get it.
Have a great day!
Deb
As Hal said, the devil is in the details. Unfortunately, he didn’t take note of them. Keep up the good work here, Deborah.
I’m not so sure that someone who doesn’t respect the right of reply can be called a seasoned writer, regardless of past experience.
Eff him. Keep rockin’ Deb!
I agree with Joe, while Hal was able to insert some facts, the article reads as a burned writer who didn’t get what they want from the community. I’ve yet to land a job from your site but that matters little to me as compared to what you offer and bring to the table for all of the freelance community.
I may not have landed a gig directly from the postings you and Jodee provide but I have garnered the tools to go out on my own and land gigs through my own job hunts.
Thanks for that and a million things more, you and Jodee keep up the good work.
Very graceful response,Deborah. I’m impressed.
Publishing that hub without contacting you really reduces the author’s credibility in my eyes. I have to wonder why the author used “freelancewritinggigs.com” in the hub title instead of simply “Freelance Writing Jobs” – a traffic-generating tactic perhaps?
I have made thousands of dollars from leads I found right here on FWJ. I have always found Deb to be honest, professional, and above-board in everything she does here. I think everyone (anonymous writers included) has benefited from the FWJ Idol contest, and I think it should continue to the end.
Poo on Hal… he just doesn’t get it. And you know what? It’s your blog, not his. If he doesn’t like the way you run what you own, let him get his own.
This site so rocks!
And Hal? Try getting your facts straight first next time.
Deb do you think it a coicidence you’ve been receiing nasty comments, someone wrote a hit piece and the polls were screwed up all at the same time? I don’t.
And ditto what the other commenter said about the keywords.
What Karen said….
I must say that I am surprised someone who claims to have been following this site for years (Hal) could get the facts so wrong. I suppose whatever way we tried to find our new blogger that someone would have cried “foul.”
Deb, as usual, said her piece in a thoughtful, respectful, and classy way. Hal is entitled to his opinion, but I think that his piece says a lot more about who Hal is than what FWJ is all about. Just my ($0.02).
I totally agree with you, Jodee. You have a wonderful two cents.
ah, there is something worse than a woman scorned, it’s a writer who found that someone peed in his Corn Flakes.
Deb,
This response is why you are one of the best in the freelance writing field. As always, I learn a lot from you and continue to be impressed with FWJ.
Thank you for all that you do. I know that my new freelance writing career would not be what it is without you or this site.
Jen
I second what many others said: this site is Number One for a reason. It offers excellent advice and help to writers in all stages of their writing career. I personally never would have landed a writing job without it. Thank you Deb and Jodee.
Very graceful response, Deb. I think you and Jodee do an amazing job, and it’s the first place I, and I’m sure many others, go to every morning.
One point about Hal’s “scamming” remark: how can it be a scam when each contestant and voter knows exactly what’s going on? There’s no hoodwinking, no slighting, no deceit. It’s basically what About.com does, and while I’m sure they receive hate mail from those who don’t make it through the initial phase, they remain legitimate. No one has to play if they don’t want to.
Dude! Way to ride the gravy train! I love the “freelancewritinggigs.com” in the title. Did you learn that in SEO school? Nice touch.
I’m a first time commenter but long time community member. I feel compelled to write because the timing of Hal’s post stinks and he’s wrong on so many levels it’s staggering.
I looked up Deb’s pal Hal and his only claims to fame are some yawn worthy hubpage blogs. Deb and Jodee, take it for what it’s worth. Yeah, his post will remain in the search engines for years and years but anyone who visits FWJ for even a few days will know what we already know. FWJ is a great community of writers who help writers and Deb and Jodee are honest and upfront about their intentions. If anyone doesn’t agree they can hang out with Hal and his ever so enlightening hub pages blog.
In the meantime I’ll add my vote to interesting coincidence theory. Let’s see…digruntled person games poll. Deb gets nasty comments. Hate blog post from some nobody pops up. Yeah nothing funny going on here.
We got your back Deb.
Good people like you who want to help other people should not have gone through that. A big load of karma is surely gonna come to get him.
Your loyal readers still believe in you, Deb. Hal Licino is simply an insignificant part of life.
I know I’m just some no one in the grand scheme of things, but I just wanted to offer my support and well wishes to you.
You have saved me HOURS of job searching since I first found your blog in 2006 – I wish I had found it MUCH sooner. I’ve been suggesting your site as the “go to” place to find reliable, steady work and I don’t regret that for a minute.
This guy’s claims are not fair and, if he really wanted to be fair he would’ve handled this much differently. This frustrated me because, really, all he did was attack a woman – and, to me, that’s dispicable. It doesn’t matter if it happens in person or online – it’s still just as damaging in both cases. He should be ashamed of himself.
Don’t worry about Hal-all his article will do is make it apparent to everyone that he’s a jackass.
Keep up the great work, this blog is hugely encouraging and full of useful info. This is a great community and an amazing service for writers-I got my first consistent writing gig from this site! So keep in mind that for every Hal out there, there are a hundred writers who recognize and appreciate what you do for us. Thanks a bunch.
Hal needs to watch TV. American Idol must be a scam as well. The advertisers are getting free entertainment to promote their ads through.
Your Idol contest is great for all writers. It is an elimination process that means that everyone has to contribute to stay in the game. Same goes for all the TV shows that are based on this type of format.
I think what you did by having the contest only strenghtens your goals to help writers find gigs that can help them climb the ladder to success. You stated that writers can pull their articles after the contest, but why would they want to do this when, clients are often found prowling your board and asking you to advertise their jobs.
This is a way for a potential client to see the writing styles of the people that come to your board. The client might need a specific style and find it in one of the contest writers. How does Hal think that Clay Atkins guy got where he is today. I don;t like him, but somebody did.
Your FWJ Idol was a wonderful experience for all who participated. I have participated in many of your blog posts for various things and I now know why you are as successful as you are. I did not participate in the FWJ Idol only because I have been very busy.
Before someone calls names and demeans the intergrity of someone, they need to get the facts straight and understand the concept of contests such as this.
Besides, it is nice to see fellow writers besides yourself sharing information. I think this should be a concept you use all the time. It broadens the scope of writing and everything else.
My book is now done. Maybe I should have posted a contest article.
Sorry I was so long winded.
Not much to say beyond what others have said. I will comment that I do not appreciate being thought of as a poor lamb led to the slaughter house.
Obviously, any writer with significant experience, such as the ones still in the contest, knows the value of having work appear on a highly rated site. We also know how to avoid a scam or two. But in my indignation I do realize that the writers in the contest – us poor, hapless victims – are not the targets. It’s the site, it’s creators and more importantly the Google juice and ad revenue the site generates.
I shall go back to being a victim now, perhaps I should let my multi-lines of writing revenue go and pursue the lucrative 50 500-word articles for $10 bundles.
Anybody got some swamp land I can buy?
By his own admission (in the comments to the above reference post on his HubPage) Hal says he will only get pennies for his post so traffic isn’t the reason.
So Hal, you’re the only one allowed to write for free(or pennies)? I mean, aren’t you stocking HugPages with virtually free (or very low paying) content?
Pot meet kettle.
What bugs me so much about this is that Mr. Licindo apparently thinks that everyone here is a blundering idiot. Not only is he calling out a blogger who has built a community instead of a pulpit or lectern to deliver lessons from, but to both vilify Deb and insult FWJ readers? Not cool, Mr. Licindo, not cool at all.
Must have been nice to wake up to, huh Deb — seeing yourself slammed in a blatant attempt to sully your reputation.
Luckily, you have a devoted and loyal audience here (yes Hal, I’m sure you think we’re all lemmings.)
People will always stir things up and create controversy to exploit the triumphs of those who are successful, so maybe the best way to view this is as a very backhanded compliment to your online success.
This is absurd. I love fwj and thought fwj idol was a great idea. And obviously the contestants did too. Keep up the great work
None of the writers in the contest are new to the writing life. We all knew what we were getting into. It was one of the things I considered before I entered the contest (writing for no pay) but I decided to go for it. I can say that I guest posted here, and that’s one more thing to add to my list of credits. Worth it to me.
And any writer worth their salt will offer a chance for rebuttal before hitting publish. That is so telling about your “accuser” Deb.
I agree with Amanda Nicole. A scam is getting something for nothing, and Deb and Jodee aren’t doing that. They are interviewing for another blogger for their site. Within that context, candidates must write and submit content that Deb has said belongs to the writers. I know that we often talk about “exposure” vs. “getting paid,” but in this case, I don’t necessarily think the exposure is a bad thing. All of the contestants in this content are seasoned writers who have extensive backgrounds of their own. The winner will get a job. Everyone else will gain content that can be used to add more feathers to their writing caps, because you never know when older content can be reworked into something new. Doesn’t sound like a scam to me.
I don’t think I can add anything of value here, but I did want to add my support for Deb, her post, this site, and this community.
There are people out there with questionable and selfish intentions – anyone spending any time here can clearly see that Deb is not one of them.
I owe a lot to Deb, Jodee, Ugur and the members of this community – every one of you is a wonderful and beautiful gift to a writer of any level of skill and experience. Each of YOU help me, personally, to grow, improve, learn, and get better/more work.
Thank you ALL.
Wow, Deb, this is really a shame. This blog launched my freelance career and I will forever be grateful. I haven’t followed the FWJ Idol contest too closely, but I did pop in a couple of times, and from the very beginning, I thought it was a creative and rather democratic way to choose your paid blogger. You and Jodee do a great job. Keep up the good work and just know there will always be people like this. Stay true to your mission and be confident that you’re providing a great service, and try your best to ignore these folks. (What you give your attention to, you energize.)
I think Hal got what he was after – attention. Be it here or on his own site, he’s being talked about and that inevitably leads to traffic. Despite him getting only pennies for the post per click, the point of a blog is to generate traffic, so that’s clearly a motive for writing it. I refuse to click the link and read it, I will not contribute to his nonsense.
That said, I invite Hal – the supposed long time community member – to comment on what exactly he 1.) hoped to achieve with this post, and 2.) what exactly was running through his head when he decided to write a post riddled with bad information.
Thank you all for your support. I do want to make a couple of points clear – if I’m not mistaken, HubPages does offer their writers a small writing fee. So Mr. Licino might not be well-paid but he is getting paid. I believe the “pennies” he’s referring to are a traffic bonus. And since his initial post only sent a total of three people here from his “hub” I’m thinking Mr. Licino doesn’t have much in the way of traffic anyway.
The other point I want to make is that I don’t intend on engaging in a bunch of back and forth with Mr. Licino. I stand by our contest and said what I had to say above.
FWJ is a community filled with good, decent people. I’m proud of what we all, as a community, created here. Thank you for making this a wonderful place for freelance writers.
Here’s something interesting. I commented on how I was confused of his claim to only be making pennies on his post and asked him if that made hubpages a scam, as well as all the other blogs out there that request and encourage guest bloggers.
The comment was deleted, along with his comment referencing his claim to be making very little money on his hub. He responded to me with this:
“JennHollowell, I have discovered in my long experience that when opening my mouth, I should first pull my feet out. Might not be a bad lesson for you to learn. Had you any knowledge of HubPages, you would know that the top Hubbers get paid a very fair cash fee per Hub published. That is over and above the relatively inconsequential AdSense earnings that buy me a nice dinner at McDonalds… if I don’t get a combo meal. That is why I can concentrate on the content of my writing rather than engaging in SEO-fests which I REFUSE to do. And no, your 3 Hubs in 10 months don’t qualify you as a top Hubber!
”
He’s now moderating all comments, do I doubt the response I sent to him will be posted. I assume he’ll just post something else insulting so people can’t really see what I wrote to him. Very childish.
He deleted all comments in defense of Deb or the ones explaining the real rules of the contest. Interesting…and very, very telling.
LOL…wow Jenn, he actually said that to you? Apparently he didn’t learn that lesson very well himself.
I have a question based upon the latest comments here triggering this thought:
How close is what he has printed and is doing to the legal definition of libel (the written act of defamation of character)?
If I understand correctly, he is presenting FALSE information as FACT/TRUE and is in fact attacking the credibility and character of Deb – and this site.
In addition, he is not allowing any comments that display the truth or defend Deb which, in my way of thinking, adds to the act of ‘libel’.
Anyone more knowledgeable than me on the topic care to help enlighten me a little, please?
I wrote for HubPages for a brief time, and I was paid per post in addition to ad revenue. The pay was $5 per post, so really not that much. I do not know of the amount paid for top hubbers, so I won’t say that the pay is low for everyone, but I’d be surprised if it was much higher.
Also, I published 117 hubs and my AdSense income totaled a whopping $19.87.
@Dani – All comments appear to be back up now.
Thank you all for your support. Really, we don’t have to engage in a lot of back and forth and he said she said. It’s the weekend and we all have much better ways to spend our time and use our words. Enjoy the day!
Again thanks – and have a great weekend.
Just wanted to give you another supportive HOORAY! for all the hard work you do, Deb. I think it’s fair to say that this is just another bump in the long, successful road you will travel. And as for the entire Hal post, “It is what it is.” Which means in another month it will be nothing at all…
Keep up the good work!
This is all so silly. If folks don’t want to write “for free” — via contests, guest posts, whatever — then great, don’t. Save it for the people who want to do it. Why do so many bloggers have to make a big issue about everything just for the sake of stirring up controversy?
The key success of this site comes from being positive and helpful and is like a community instead of being designed and optimized with the needs of an individual in mind. If this site weren’t symbiotic, there wouldn’t be people who’ve been visiting daily for years! Sending support from here Deb and Jodee!
He’s a dork. I mean, ok, that was wrong. He’s not a dork. He is from Toronto though…
Perhaps someone should write a review of his site…
*makes note to self…
Ya know, I wish I would’ve found out about FWJ Idol sooner than I did, because I would’ve loved to have given a try at it.
As far as this guy goes, from here, I’d remove the link. His 15 minutes are over.
FWJ is a great and informative website… I had no idea before this website that I could make money blogging online (something I love to do anyway), and I’ve learned so much about freelance writing as a result of this blog. I’m in college and actually making money online, because of FWJ, and I think that trying to stir up drama with you is just making this Hal character look bad.
Thank you Deb (and Jodee) for all you guys do!
I’ve only been following your site for the past month or more, so I hesitate to comment. (Although, I’ve skimmed by it in the past) But, then I think maybe that means I’ll have a more objective view than some of your loyal followers or loyal detractors. Yes, you certainly have both – and that’s a good sign.
I think you come across a little defensively and maybe err on the side of taking things too personally than might be warranted by this (as well as a past posting when some readers were criticizing the “job” listings). Of course it is understandable, to a point that you feel personally attacked. You’ve obviously worked hard at establishing this site and your reputaion. But, there will always be others out there questioning. That’s fine. Maybe just restate your goals and remind readers they’re free to come and go. You’re not holding anyone hostage here.
As the Blogosphere matures, there continues to be new trends (like writing with or without by-lines, or with or without pay)that are accepted in one venue and looked at askance in another. I don’t think it’s that big a deal in the over-all scheme of things. Better to affirm your viewpoint, then make readers (defenders as well as dissenters) feel welcome.
What an ass. Seriously. I just went over to read and I’m thoroughly disgusted.
Deb, don’t doubt yourself. Everyone here had the *choice* to participate in your contest. That guy demonstrated classic arTEESTe attitude and I’ll be damned if he gets to judge MY decision about where to write, when to write and whether I should write for free or not. I’ll decide that for myself, thank you very much.
Bloody hell.
The guy is now moderating comments…lol. It’s almost funny. He posts such crap, then gets defensive when people actually take up for this site. Did he really expect different?
Deb, you have a great site. And Jodee, you do such a wonderful job! Don’t let this guy, with a claim to fame of only Hub pages in his so called 30 years of experience, bother you. The fact that he now feels the need to moderate comments that are good for you and make him look bad, on HIS on page, says it all, along with the comments listed here for your post.
Sure, the attack was pretty strong, but I sure wouldn’t want to write a dozen articles just to find out I got nothing. Nobody held a gun to anybodys head to force them to write, but he’s right that the Idol was set up wrong, as it milked writers for a lot of free valuable words.
Deb,
I’m sorry to hear about the hit piece. I have to admit I thought that someone would take offense sooner or later. Contests like this always generate controversy. Your inspiration, American Idol, generates plenty of controversy and conspiracy theories. I still think the contest was a brilliant idea, but I’m afraid some flack was inevitable. In the words of a wise fish… Just Keep Swimming.
John
@ Lori – You mistake the situation. No one was writing without knowing they weren’t receiving compensation. Everyone knew ahead of time they were writing for free – and for an opportunity.
What value does that opportunity have? They get a little bit of glory, a place they can point to and say, “I wrote that,” and they get a shot at a nice gig on a recognized, credible blog. That’s compensation. They’ll also get noteriety when their name goes live.
No one here was milked of free words. Not one person.
I wouldn’t want to discourage any sharing of thoughts by this viewpoint, BUT – I honestly think that after 45 comments, we’ve given him enough energy.
You know what? I don’t even follow it regularly, but I can say that the very IDEA that the FWJ Idol contestants are receiving NOTHING for writing (by choice) at such a respected online writing community (clearly its exposure – an opportunity to be read – and respect at the very least) is so foolish that, well… to try to explain it might just end with silly circular logic. If someone doesn’t get it, seriously – they’re just SLOW.
Any writer worth his or her salt who has browsed online to get work has found FWJ, and knows its a valuable resource.
He’s made a real fool of himself. And “only a fool argues with a fool.” From here on out, I don’t think we don’t need to prove him wrong. That’s done. In my humble opinion, we should focus on affirming our support for Deb, Jodee, the FWJ Idol contestants, and the opportunities regularly presented to us by this site.
I vote we move on and get to doing what we do best – using FWJ for work leads, sharing tips and positive encouragement, and furthering our skills with the command of language.
In the title of one of my mother’s oft-seen books: Don’t Worry, Make Money.
Now, I’ll give off with some positive energy:
Deb and Jodee, you have seen me comment on two different job boards recently that I’ve received promising work from your leads. “Thank You!” as always, for offering me the opportunity to further my career as a writer. And even when I didn’t earn work, I thank you for the informative posts that helped me learn about the business and the freelance life.
We all know what’s on the up-and-up
. Thanks again!
*don’t think we need to prove him wrong. Pardon me, typo.