Freelance Writing Jobs Accused of Scammery and Fraud
August 16, 2008 by Deb
Filed under Freelance Writing
Wow. Just Wow.
I’m floored. As most of you know, the FWJ Idol contest was created as a way to give this community a chance to pick its newest paid blogger. Today, it was brought to my attention that someone who claims to be a regular here posted a long “hub” about how I’m scamming folks in exchange for free content. The recent gaming of the polls didn’t help matters any.
This distresses me not because the blogger failed to catch the essence of this contest and the FWJ community in his blog post, but because the last thing I want to do is scam anyone. The author, Hal Licino, invited me to respond, which kind of ticks me off even more – why not ask for a quote or comment or my side of the story prior to writing such a negative piece? Isn’t that what seasoned writers such as Mr. Licino do? He chose instead to post a hit piece and then ask for my thoughts -which of course will look like I’m on the defensive. I’m suspecting Mr. Licino needs traffic, and by posting his link I’m sending it his way, but I believe in being fair and presenting both sides of the issue.
I’m also distressed at the responses in the comments from someone who I have had a very respectful relationship with and who is a regular here. Mark Knowles wrote:
I would hazard a guess that like many of us, she is having trouble turning a successful blog into an income stream, and this may have clouded her judgement.
Actually Mark, FWJ is making enough to pay one writer a monthly income and another for a twice-weekly gig. We’re doing fine, but thanks for your continued faith in me.
Now for the meat of the matter, as Hal Licino wrote in his post, the devil is indeed in the details. Since he has been following this contest so closely, I’m sure it’s merely an oversight that he forgot a few key points.
22 Contestants aren’t writing each week. 22 people applied for the job in the comments section of the very first post and 13 made the cut. We didn’t have 22 writers sending in content at all. Not even close. Each week one or more was eliminated. Some weeks two people were eliminated. We are getting ready to eliminate one more this weekend to make it to the final three.
All contestants were (and still are) offered the opportunity to have their content pulled the week after it was posted, after each week’s voting. This is not my content to keep. I do not own the rights and the contestants are welcome to do whatever they wish with the content. One contestant who didn’t make the cut requested removal and we were happy to oblige. Mr. Licino claimed we offered to pull the content after the contest was over – not true. We offered to pull each week’s content after the weekly poll. Since most writers contribute towards the end of the week, should that have their content pulled it would only be up at FWJ for a matter of a few days.
Contestants are given numbers and anonymous names to keep the voting fair. We’re looking for a blogger and it’s not a popularity contest. At the end of this contest, anyone not wishing to pull content will get their byline and a full bio on each blog post including links back anywhere. Our bloggers won’t be anonymous when the contest is over. Some already have a following.
As for the voting, yes we had issues with someone gaming the polls. We’re trusting our community and contestants to do the right thing but there are always those who need to come along and ruin a good thing. We’re hoping that issue is dealt with. The candidates who come out on top are the same ones who always come out on top – even before the gaming took place. We’re confident the best person for the job will indeed be selected.
I can understand how Mr. Licino might think I’m taking advantage of writers. When it comes down to it he’s not wrong about some things. All of our hardworking contestants have entrusted us with their content for this contest – and no, they’re not being paid for it. Their bylines won’t even come until the contest is over. But a sucker trap? I’m deeply offended.This contest was created as a fun way to allow the FWJ community have a say in who its next blogger would be. There’s no hidden agenda. Personally I prefer an uncluttered blog and didn’t like the confusion of having dozens of posts a day (as Jodee will attest).
So I will present some facts and as, always, my community will decide what is fair:
- This blog provides a valuable free service to freelance writers.
- For three years we built this to be a place of honesty and integrity. We dedicated our own time educating writers how to set proper rates and stay away from scams.
- Everything I make in advertising goes to paying writers and for the design and maintenance of FWJ. It always goes back to FWJ.
- The last thing we want to do is take from people without offering something in return.
I said it in the past and I’ll say it now. All contestants are welcome to pull their content at any time. I do not own the rights to your content and don’t expect exclusivity. Jodee will be paid overtime to help me pull content or insert bios and links into contestants blog posts at the end of the contest.
If you don’t think this is fair, we have no problem pulling the content, especially since we don’t own it.
In the meantime I hope you will continue to enjoy our contest, even though there are some who apparantly don’t get it.
Have a great day!
Deb
I’ve earned more than $1000 from job leads here so I will always be grateful. The crux of the matter is that whether we support Deb or not, Hal has valid points. If perhaps FWJIdol had been one round leading to a semifinal and then a final, writers would have only had to write 3 pieces. As it was the contest can be construed as an exploitation. This Hal is a bit of a crusader and he’s even getting death threats now from a technology site because he criticized the bizarre process of sanding down a processor in water. I hope this discussion doesn’t go that far. Hal said several times that he respects this site. He should not be disrespected for expressing a valid opinion that is backed up by reality. This site moderates comments too, by the way.
Thanks Jeremy, thanks LorieR – Hey interesting thing – did you guys know you have the same IP address?
Married people usually do, Deb.
@Jeremy – My apologies then. Just out of curiosity are you a polygamist? Because several of your spouses also seem to post here.
Hi Deb,
Say, the IP isn’t 67.186.36.234 is it? BTW, I like your new technical writer. It is good to see FWJ covering technical writing now. Let me know if you ever want to branch out into writing about contracting/consulting, I’d be happy to do some guest posts for you.
A single IP can serve a thousands of computers. Why so paranoid?
Hi John – No. Yours might be a different proxy. This IP comes from an anonymous online proxy server. A few weeks ago when we first had issues with the poll and had to shut it off, some very nasty comments were deleted by some people with the same exact anonymous proxy IP.
Now if you’ll all excuse me, it’s family movie night.
Deb,
Haven’t been on your site in a while but thought I’d check it out today and was surprised to see that all hell had broken loose. I read the article Hal Licino posted and, while he didn’t go about it in the right way, he does bring up a good question. Why are blog writers willing to work for so little or for free?
I’ve been in public relations and marketing for the past ten years, the last few of which I’ve focused mostly on writing. I charge a pretty decent hourly rate, (which is actually lower than what it should be for my years of experience, but I live in an area that won’t support anything higher, and then…there’s the economy).
What I think some bloggers fail to understand is that there are those of us in PR, marketing, advertising, journalism, grant writing and other heavy writing industries that have been making a certain standard of wage for years. It seems as if bloggers have come along and are trying to change the rules about how much we get paid. Whether its ignorance or something more devious I’m not sure, but regardless, it’s very frustrating.
And for the record, I think Hal is totally linkbaiting and I don’t think you’re scamming anybody.
Personally, I thought this contest was a unique way to hire a writer. Since the winning writer will be writing for the FWJ community, allowing the community to be a part of the hiring process was an excellent idea, and keeping things anonymous to avoid a popularity contest was also a good idea.
As a long-time FWJ reader, I knew Deb and Jodee were trustworthy women, so I didn’t hesitate to enter the contest. While I may not have been paid for my writings, I was doing it with the hopes that I might land the job that would pay me for my work.
Although, I won’t be the one to get the job, I did enjoy the contest and interaction with the FWJ community. I don’t plan on Deb and Jodee pulling my content either. Instead, I’d love to have my bio and link placed on my pieces so I may grow my readership, which I know will come from a successful blog.
FWJ is not only a great place to hone my writing skills, but a community filled with trustworthy and friendly folks, whom I enjoyed contributing to, and hope that my writing helped them. In fact, if Deb and Jodee ever needs a writer to fill in for someone on their writing staff, I’d be honored to help.
While I don’t normally write for free, this was a contest for a paying writing job, and no one twisted my arm to enter. The choice was mine alone, and the experience was truly enjoyable.
Okay, maybe some of that doesn’t make sense, but the point I was trying to make is I never felt scammed and was happy to be a part of what I thought was a unique and excellent way to hire a writer to write for a large audience. After all, it’s the readers we really have to please.
I’ve been visiting FWJ for months now, and have even gotten a couple gigs from. I shamefully admit that I’ve never posted here before, but have come to appreciate and love the site. I thought that these allegation are RIDICULOUS. This contest hasn’t been portrayed to be anything other than what it was. Keep doing what your doing ladies and please don’t give this another thought. I’m on the verge of making the transition to full time freelancer, and you guys are part of the reason why, so THANK YOU!
Holy crap. I’ve been away all day, and I just now read this. I haven’t even had a chance to read through all the comments yet, but Deb, I’m sure you know that most of the members of your community here would never listen to that writer. It was clear from the start that none of the contestants would be paid for their content until someone won, at which time that person would be offered a paying position. No one was forced to enter the contest! I’ve personally enjoyed it very much so far, and it’s an honor just to have my work appear on this site.
Well, I for one think that the contest is a great way to choose a new blogger. It`s almost funny the way Hal states his opinion as fact, and sticks to it and snaps back at anyone who attempts to reply in favor of you, Deb. I`ve met many people like this before (and am even related to a couple) who are “always” right.
You could seriously send him a print copy of the information you`ve given in this blog post and he will only pick out the stuff he wants and find a way to twist everything else. So, my advice is . . . relax! You`re almost down to the final 3! Soon we`ll have a new blogger here and I`m totally looking forward to it!
Deb, think of it this way…you’ve never truly “arrive” until the trolls and haters come to the surface.
Thank you for all the hard work you do from this daily reader.
Deb – great post. You have nothing to worry about. FWJ is not tarnished in the least. Jodee – You are well respected and have so much to offer this community.
Truly, the both of you are women of integrity and high standards. The community here is one of the best I’ve ever encountered on a blog… (group hug!)
A contest is a contest. Someone is upset that they weren’t chosen. Gaming is uncool and so is a writer who can’t get their facts straight (Hal stinks).
Thanks for everything you guys do to make this a great place.
Did I say that Hal stinks? He smells, has incurable B.O. and is a poor writer. I bet he doesn’t brush his teeth either.
@Deb You might remember I used FWJ to hire writers for different blogging projects in the past. I’m always impressed by the quality of writers referred from FWJ. Thanks for your patience and assistance.
As a note of solidarity I’ve made note of a certain writers name. When I’m looking for writers and bloggers and we will not hire him for any job. I read through his “hubs” and from what I gather his way of bringing in page views is to create controversy and let folks fight it out. A chickenshoot tactic. A good writer can rely on merit and not controversy and linkbait.
But wait…it gets better. This writer’s name is up at the webmaster forum too and we’ve all agreed to keep him on the blacklist. Maybe he’ll think twice about who he messes with.
Best wishes. You have something amazing here, don’t let the bastards get your down.
@ Victoria: Thank you.
Mr. Licino has every right to his opinion, but I believe he undermined his intended points with his seemingly bitter comments. Was he an FWJ Idol contestant who lost? It sure seems that way . . .
I’m thinking the dozens and dozens of writers/visitors can’t be wrong.
Thanks for all your hard work! Now let’s get back to business.
Moving on . . .
As you can tell, his opinions are not the in the majority. Know you have the support of everyone posting and keep up the great work ladies. Like someone mentioned, usually the best around bring on the hate from others who can’t quite stack up!
From the perspective of someone new to FWJ, I have very much enjoyed the articles posted as well as the idea of FWJ Idol. I was really surprised to hear about this, but take Licino’s post with a grain of salt.
I think you guys are running an amazing site here; I have gotten three good jobs in the past three weeks from this site, and your ability to support and help writers is not only successful, it’s commendable.
Rightfully, he is taking a lot of heat over at Hubpages. I can’t see this deterring your loyal fans or repulsing new ones in any way–as someone above stated, you are number one for a reason.
Rock on.
@neveeeda: haha, yup. loved it. soooo over the top and unnecessarily dramatic. my favorite part, as well.
I don’t read this site daily and I’m not a freelance writer (I write fiction) but it seems to me that anyone can do anything they want to with their own writing–enter contests, sell it, burn it, whatever.
Not everyone agrees with what every contest wants or offers, but that doesn’t make them scams.
Deb,Jodee,and Ugar,
I’ve also been away but I want to chime in my support of FWJ, the community, the contest and all that you do.
Deb and Jodee, do not doubt for one second the great service you provide for writers. FWJ rocks and in my book your integrity is not in question. When you become successful there are always those who look to bring you down. This guy clearly has issues!
Agree with the National Enquirer comment above. Looks like yellow journalism exists online, too.
Wow… I’m amazed that this guy had such nerve… I refuse to visit his site and add to his traffic, so I do admit that I don’t have his side of the story, but I know how this thing tends to go down. You run a great community here, Deb, and the idol thing is great fun. My only complaint is that by changing their names, candidates may be judged on just one or two posts rather than a good history of what they can deliver, but I still love the game.
No response here, Hal? I mean posting as yourself, of course? Telling.
I think everything that can be said about Hal has been said.:) I like FWJ and Deb & Jodee’s work and I’ll continue to come back here. There is great writing and good advice here. Just unfortunate that someone decided to use the site for traffic or whatever purposes.
Phil — I hadn’t even noticed that part. Time for me to get new glasses I suppose… As far as yellow journalism online, I think it’s worse online (blogs especially) than anyplace else. On blogs, it’s almost to be expected that one-sided/unbalanced, and often inaccurate, writings will be accepted by viewers as fact. I was just ranting about this with a neighbor. She blames wikipedia (for inaccuracy standards) and Perez Hilton for the rest. LOL But I’m starting to seriously wonder about all the hostility online, whether most of it isn’t just to grab attention. Not just in this case, but in most cases. And of course, online publications (term used loosely) paying per page click only encourage this kind of thing. But that’s a big rant that’s way off topic and probably not one I should get into after midnight.
Hi Deb,
I know its hard, but you have to ignore these kind of barbs. I won an award last year, and recieved hate mail! Hate mail!?! Someone visited my site (www.theweddingguide.eu) and said how terrible it was and that I should enjoy my short lived reward because I obviously didn’t have the talent to get anything else.
There will always be people who miss the point, and the important thing to hold on to is that there are plenty of other people out there who enjoy your site, appreciate your efforts, and keep visiting. Yes, it sucks that in the world of the internet, anyone can publicly criticize and flame, but unfortunately, that’s the nature of the beast. I do agree though that as journalists, especially online, we do have to be more responsible about our content. How many people bother to cite, or even find proper sources for blogs? Hopefully his post drove a little traffic your way.
Lets welcome all the new, savvy visitors who decided to get a clearer perspective on what you are doing with the contest and make up their own minds. Bravo for doing more investigative journalism than the original author!
I know I shouldn’t give him the traffic but I went back and read it again. This is a very hateful unbiased piece of writing. And I also know not all hub pages writers are paid a per post fee for their writing. So Hal may be something special…or he’s a liar. And if he is something special he’s working for an organization that doesn’t pay writers much money at all. Take what you want from that.
I thought the hub was so unfair I gave it the thumbs down and flagged it so hubpages editors will review the post. Nothing may come of it, but I think the people in charge need to see for themselves how this man stirs the pot in exchange for numbers. He has another post where he takes a shot at Deb too – about something different but he threw Deb’s name in there and some mean things just for the sake of doing it.
If you look at his posts, many people tell him he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He likes to create controversy and stir the pot. That’s how he gets his readers. Real writers know how to draw in a crowd with good writing not biased, innacurate hate wrting.
Sorry Deb but no publication worth its weight in salt would allow this kind of tabloid (OMG!!) journalism. I’m surprised this is what hub pages wants.
Oh and I want to add I also find it interesting Hal hasn’t responded here (as himself of course) nor is he approving comments at his hub. He claims to be having his weekend but he’s commented other places. So he’s a liar too.
Wow – I don’t read for a weekend and a volcano erupts. I’m rather shocked by this guy’s gall. I don’t really have anything to add to the comments, especially since Deb has so eloquently defended her position. I’m sorry you’ve had to expend this kind of mental energy on such a loser.
Well now. Here’s an interesting tidbit, Deb. I found some information regarding hubpages. You will be interested to learn writers get paid with their own affiliates, Adsense, Amazon, etc.
Now. Let’s say Hal is indeed a rare writer who gets paid by the post for hubpages. There are many who don’t according to what I’m reading online. Does this mean that *gasp* Hal is supporting a website that doesn’t pay its writers? Revenue is never a sure thing and by Hal’s own admission, writers shoulnd’t write for the glory. Hubpages couldn’t be a form of exploitation could it?
Some of these articles say hubbers earn a percentage of the advertising. Not even the whole thing!
Let’s go to the videotape:
http://www.ehow.com/how_2320417_hubs-hubpages.html – The comments are interesting. Especiall from the writers who say they haven’t really made anything.
http://www.real-work-at-home.co.uk/101WorkIdeas/HomeBusinessLists/HubPages/tabid/150/Default.aspx
http://aharddayswrite.blogspot.com/2007/08/associated-content-vs-hubpages.html
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/225070/what_is_hubpages_a_guide_to_a_usergenerated.html
http://ezinearticles.com/?How-to-Make-Money-Online-Using-Hubpages&id=1169395
http://www.printnpost.com/articles/2258/1/Make-Money-With-HubPages-Earn-Income-4-Different-Ways/Page1.html
There are plenty more of these links out there if anyone else wants to take a look. The point is income isn’t guaranteed. For Hal to get up on his high horse to complain about this makes him a hypocrite.
Wow. So very interesting. It’s times like this when I bring out my imaginary words. Today’s word: Ridonculous!
If he had raised his concerns about the contest in an appropriate way, then I would have been more inclined to listen. But the entire way he went about it, from that crazy graphic to his use of wording like scam and fraud reeked of sensationalism and frankly, bad writing.
Anyway, this is nothing anyone above me hasn’t said, but I just wanted to show my support. Deb and Jodee, this is a fantastic site and one of the only sites that I consistantly visit every day.
I always feel as if my day hasn’t truly started unless I’ve checked for jobs at FWJ!
Like Andrea, I take the weekend off and WOW. I used to write for HubPages, too, as a columnist for one specific niche. I earned $5.00/article + ad revenue…I knew going in that $5.00 was low, but I wanted to try it out. I did that for a month, fulfilled my obligations and left. From my understanding, unless you’re in that “columnist” position for whatever specific topic, you don’t necessarily get paid up front (forgive me if I’m wrong, though, it’s been a while since I wrote there).
In all fairness Andrea, the words “scam” and “fraud” are mine. The author used “exploiting”. He’s insinuating I’m scamming and defrauding writers out of their hard work just to fill my blog with free content – but he’s stopping just short of saying it. His main accusation is that I’m exploiting the contestants which, when you think of it, is rather insulting to them as well.
Anyway, as I said. I defended myself above and won’t get into any back and forth with the author. I’m pretty much done with this silliness as it speaks for itself.
Once again, I thank everyone for their support and hope you’re as excited as we are to see who wins FWJ Idol.
The wisdom that is Hal Licino
From a post about how to get the good pageviews on hubpages:
Not for nothing, Hal, but I think Deb’s still waiting on your call.
While I value my writing, I cannot see that in sending off pieces to a competition I am being milked of valuable words. No one twisted anyone’s arm, after all.
You provide a good service here, and the contest was a fun idea. What a shame that people have gotten their noses out of joint over it.
The essence of the point Hal Licino attempted to make through his somewhat poorly researched and written article I do understand. To his own detriment Licino raises questions about freelancers not being paid for their words by alluding to this being an online scam that exploits writers.
By doing this, Licino does nothing but lessen the impact of his own authority on his own seemingly niche topic of writing scams. Licino has shown that he lacks the good sense as well as the basic skills to follow through with adequate research before writing.
The prize in this contest is indeed a job, and in order to “win” (or get the job) freelancers must produce content, that will be published, for free. Still, you simply cannot enter a writing contest without actually writing. There are freelancers who do enter writing contests, and those that never would consider it. Obviously participants here made the choice, after learning the facts, to enter the contest on their own accord.
Is this, as Licino suggests, a scam or a sucker trap? I would say it definitely is not.
Every freelancer who was interested in entering this contest had the same and equal opportunity to not participate after learning that writing unique content was the contest entry. It doesn’t seem to me that any participant has been cheated, defrauded, suckered, or mislead under false pretense.
With all information presented, this is simply a contest and those who agreed to the contest rules participated, and those to did not agree, simply moved on to read a different blog post.
Wow, I’ve been out of the loop for a few days but I have to say that even for an opinion piece you want to make sure that you get your facts straight. I’m a newbie and even I know that.
Deb, I only found this blog in July so I’m not a longtime follower, but I’ve got you on my RSS feed now and try to keep up with the job postings. I’ve applied for quite a few (haven’t gotten anything yet, but that takes time!) and just want to say a huge thank you to you and Jodee for taking the time to find the job leads and post them here–along with all the encouraging articles and tips. (It was from FWJ that I first learned $.02 a word is NOT acceptable and I shouldn’t undersell myself…thank you!)
I also want to tell you I’m sorry for the hassle and headache you’re going through regarding some rather juvenile antics from some people (Hal, the poll-hijakers, and others). Sadly, even the internet is the playground of junior high behavior because some people just never grow up.
I’m confident you have far more grateful readers of FWJ than immature ones. Thank you again, and try not to let the minority get to you. Hope you enjoyed your family movie night!
Not sure that I can add much to this. I just wanted to say that I saw parts of the contest including the original post and no-one in their right mind would have called it a scam. From my point of view it was a very fair way of finding the right person to write for the site.
@ Anon – LOL, good point there, made with his own words!
Made me grin in slight satisfaction. Laughing inside.
Deb,
As an attorney, I’d love to take this on pro bono. This statement alone gives you a case;
“After years of educating and informing her writing community on how to avoid online writing scams, Deborah Ng set up one of the biggest sucker traps in the freelance writing market. ”
Unless he can absolutely prove you set up a sucker trap he can be sued, and sued good. I’m also emailing you my details and the details as to how this blogger set himself up for a lawsuit. I look forward to hearing from you.
Wow! Deb I’m sorry to hear about this. You are a class act … Period! *huGs* Suzanne
I’m really surprised at how contentious this contest has become. I thought it was it was a great idea from the start. Do the “American Idols” get paid for their performances during the contest? Fox makes a killing off of them but I don’t hear a single one complain. Sure, their names and faces are plastered all over the place, but the writers who entered this contest get some great perks, too–their writing is read by a huge audience (and they’ll get credit for it when the contest is over); the practice is undeniably beneficial; and they are clearly impressing the judges who have offered nothing less than every bit of support they can give in the future for these contestants.
As my mother always told me, “You can’t please all the people all the time.”
Keep up the good work, Deb and Jodee!
Thanks all again for your emails and comments. It is what it is. Again, I’m not getting involved in any back and forth. I have no statements and will not get involved in any pettiness over words and sentences.
Anon – thanks for your offer but I’m not in need of legal advice at this time. I’ve put this hateful episode behind me and hope you’ll do the same. The only reason it’s staying alive is because of all the people who are helping to keep it alive.
So here’s is my final word on it. I said everything I have to say. Period. It’s self explanatory. I appreciate all the love, but would appreciate it more if you don’t feed the fire.
The end.
Well Deb you’re certainly handling this with class and dignity. I respect you all the more for not getting in to a spitting fight. That Hal guy seems to be losing it a bit with his rambling anyway so you’re better off.
You gave us all a good lesson as to handle this type of situation. I know you were afraid of losing readers through this but I think the opposite is going to happen.
Good for you for remaining classy.
Agreed, DebFan. I admire how Deb handled this situation. She is a class act.
I just came here, from the hub in question. All I can say is that I am bookmarking this site, as I’m sure I’ll be back daily. Please don’t judge Hubpages by this one bad apple. It’s actually a nice place to write. Not much money, but it’s all about the experience for some of us.