Time vs. Timeless
August 14, 2008 by Deb Ng
Filed under Freelance Writing
by Gigantaur
This week’s assignment was the most difficult one yet. I could sum it up easily: “Write anything and discuss.” The problem with that challenge is time – and the value of timeless discussion.
You see, in the blogosphere, there is no time. Unless someone decides to delete a post, it literally lasts forever. I may write something today and still be discussing it with commentators when I’m 95.
So I can’t win. By the time you read this post, it will be Thursday, one day before you as a community decide whether I’m worthy of your vote because I’ve completed the task well. You, as a reader, will have exactly one day to decide whether I have met the challenge with honors.
Should I rush to write my post in the hopes of gaining a few days of discussion? Should I hurry to submit my post so that current readers can decide that I indeed am worthy and pass approval?
I think not, actually. That may appear a touch arrogant and might even cost me this competition, but I have a strong opinion regarding the issue, and I would be wrong to act contrary to my beliefs.
There is no time in the blogosphere. Valuable content is discussed over and again. A good post is one that readers who have not yet arrived at this blog will read and comment on for months, years and decades to come. Valuable content is timeless.
A valuable blogger is one who reads those future comments and who commits to responding as long as he or she can – beyond this week, beyond the vote and beyond the deadline of a competition.
I’ll turn the question to you: How do you feel about a person who accomplishes the task, even if only a few hours remain before you need to take a decision? If you were in the hiring position, would you look for a person who offered short-term results because of speed or one who offered long-term return because of dedication?
It’s a tough question. Think carefully.
Deb’s Note: Gigantaur is on vacation this week and is worried as time without a computer doesn’t lead to much community building time. Gigantaur promises to keep the conversation flowing upon returning tomorrow.
As one who deals with daily deadlines, sometimes you have to get something in that is interesting/newsworthy even if you could make it better later.
Case in point. I was a sportswriter in 1983 and was at Comiskey Park to cover the game in which the White Sox were expected to clinch the division championship. There was a rain delay, and it was unlikely that an article after the game would make the deadline. So I wrote an article on the “atmosphere,” talking about the expansion of Sox merchandise to several blocks from the park (rather than just outside), more people attempting to scalp tickets (from what I saw, I went to a lot of games when I wasn’t working), etc.
The game resumed and the Sox one. I wrote about game and post-game celebration. Early-run papers (about 70,000 circulation, so some zones printed ahead of others) didn’t get this article, but others did. Usually first article would have been bumped. But editor liked it enough that some other article that he deemed less important was spiked.
Also wrote on deadline when Challenger blew up — paper actually “stopped the presses.” Wire service people have to call in or write articles “on the fly.”
Yes, an article/post can be better when you have more time, but the ability to work on tight deadlines can lead to a lot of work (many people don’t do as well with deadlines), so it’s a skill worth developing. My largest current account, one I landed a year ago, has me writing on a daily deadline. If I didn’t have the time-pressure experience, I never would have landed the gig.
I think you raise an interesting point, Gigantaur. Good content – and a good blogger – can keep the conversation flowing for a long time. A good host doesn’t only mingle during the party’s first hour, he or she makes sure guests are comfortable and happy throughout.
Nice food for thought. A good discussion is the gift that keeps on giving.
Gigantaur, you make an excellent point (and I love your alias). It’s certainly true that a post with valuable content will be referenced time and again; I don’t think anyone can disagree with that. I have to make two points to the contrary, though:
1. Unless there’s a reason for people to return to a post again and again (if it has reference value, for instance, or contains specific information that people can’t find elsewhere), people generally won’t revisit a post. And new people who stumble upon the Web site are not even likely to know it’s there unless they go through the archives (which they may, but going through archives is time-consuming).
2. For the purposes of a contest like FWJ Idol, I think it is beneficial to community members for a post to be submitted further in advance. I’m not trying to say that your post is last-minute, because I don’t think it is–and surely we can go back to past votes and notice that posts that were submitted relatively late in the game got high votes anyway because they were good posts. But I think (and I might be wrong) that some members of the FWJ community want to determine their votes based not only upon the content of a post but also upon how the author of that post interacts with those who comment, and it can be hard to see how that author replies if there isn’t much time for interaction before it’s time to vote.
I love the aliases this week! Gigantaur, this “is” a tough question. I can see your point, but I can also identify with Phil and Megatron’s points as well.
I think it would somewhat depend on the context. Although due to the new alias “we” may not know how you have interacted with the community in the past week’s rounds, but Deb and Jodee do. And surely, you have had relatively good interaction to have made it this far.
Anyhow, those are a few of my caffiene-deprived, non-superhuman brain thoughts this morning.
In the general sense of the question, I’m not a last minute person. I try to have everything lined up and ready to go with time remaining. I also tend to be a perfectionist and feel my writing is never ready, and I edit, and edit, and edit… Maybe I am my own worse enemy.
Ouch. worst enemy.
I might be reading this differently than everyone else, but I’m thinking Gigantaur’s point is less about deadlines and this contest and it’s more about writing good content that will keep a discussion flowing long after the initial post.
I’ve participated in conversations on some blogs that are still going strong a year later. If I’m understanding it correctly gintaur is asking if it’s more important to lead a discussion which will only last as long as its front-page expectancy or one that keeps flowing for a long time after. If this is the case, my vote is for the latter.
Blogging is about creating a conversation. It’s not about the short term effect, but also the long tail. I often find blog posts through Google searches and would love to take part in the discussion but the discussion ended months ago. Yes Gigantaur, content is king but so is the ability to keep the content relevant and the discussion (and traffic) flowing. If I were Deb or Jodee this would be a very important consideration in choosing my next blogger. Good post.
An interesting topic for discussion. The question was asked, and I have two general thoughts on it.
1- I am in the Phil and Megatron group – I think especially where involvement and interaction with a community are really important. Some people are on a 4-day work week, take 3 day vacations over the weekend, etc. If interaction and reaching out to as many in the community as possible counts, personally I would shoot for getting it out sooner rather than later. As other writers in general and as candidates in this contest have shown, with interaction comes an opportunity to elaborate, explain, learn, etc. Getting it in later doesn’t leave as much leeway for that.
And, on a personal level, my goal is to be able to write high quality no matter how tight or loose the deadline. If it takes me too long to do a good job, I personally decide that maybe the job is above my head still and I either need to step up my game FAST or let it go and improve myself so I can tackle something at that level when I am ready for it.
It also could mean I have taken on too much and that I will have to sacrifice something important – like family time – in order to accomplish it to the degree it needs to be accomplished or that I strive to accomplish it. That is not a sacrifice I am willing to make.
2- I am like Cherrye in some ways. I try to juggle my life and time so I can get my work in early (because Heaven only knows how many unexpected things can crop up that might interfere or cause me to miss a deadline!).
For me, a deadline isn’t “this is when it’s due” – for me, that is the last possible moment it can be in and not be late. With how much I am juggling and trying to balance in my life, I can’t afford to think of deadlines in any other way – it could cost me clients when life’s little surprises pop up.
However, this is how I have chosen to conduct myself and run my business, and it may not be for everyone – and that’s ok.
I’m just answering the question.
@Karen – I agree with you. After reading it, I found myself not really ready to comment yet. Posts get buried quickly as new content is added and in general, sad as this may be, I don’t often have the time to go back months and read something.
Yet, Megatron’s point is very relevant. I’ve had dozens of teachers through the years, been part of many writing groups and yet,I always think back to what my senior-year English teacher taught us – MEGATIME. His point being that we often think we have all the time in the world to do whatever we want be it turning in our assignment or simply tackling something we’ve always wanted to do, but realistically life is short and you’ve got to keep current. That same year at the age of 46 he had a heart attack, while he survived, it really drove home “Megatime” for us. It’s been 20 years, but that one lesson is the one I most remember. It’s actually because of him that on my 30th birthday I realized there were things I still wanted to do and had let fears or money dictate, so for my 30th birthday I conquered my fear of needles and proceeded to get a Celtic symbol tattooed on my ankle.
Actually when it comes down to it I’d rather have well written content that brings in traffic and encourages lively long term discussion even if I get it at the last minute. I do believe in deadlines but I prefer good writing over an early submission.
Yes, I do like to see how each candidate interacts with the community but if there’s no community does it make a difference? I like how Gigantaur thinks of writing for the long term not just for the duration of the contest.
Also, you all know how I feel about turning in contest submissions early for community interaction, I like to see how our candidates interact. But if you look at the first discussion – Megatron’s submission – it’s not getting as many responses now as it did the first or second day.
So we have a lot of considerations here.We have the folks who turned in their posts bright and early and led discussions that are now petering out and we have folks who will be fresher on our voters minds because they turned in later. Which content will continue bring readers and stimulate discussion? Which blogger do we feel can create good, long-term discussions? Is a good blogging conversation only measured by the amount of comments or by what we get out of it?
There’s a lot for all of us to think about.
In general, I agree that rushing to get something in ahead of deadline would be silly. I also agree that a discussion-provoking piece with long-lasting potential would be better than a short-lived piece in many cases.
As far as the contest goes, I don’t think it matters when the pieces are submitted. My gripe is that I would have preferred having them spread out over more time so folks had more time to read them all before having to turn around and vote the next day. But my information overload seems to be weaning now that there aren’t so many contestants.
My opinion is that Megatron’s post seems to have done the best job at producing discussion with this crowd. That post asked an easy question and gave folks an easy reason to bond, and I thought it was a clever way to interpret Deb’s assignment. I think it would have done just as well if posted today as it did two days back. Is it going to be a long-term discussion? I think it could be, if it were posted prominently in the sidebar as a “getting to know you” or “introduction” type of post. If the post was made easily accessible to the new visitor, then I do think it would be a lasting discussion. Pushed down the page in the archives, probably not. Just as I don’t see this post dragging out into a long-term conversation at this blog. I’d love to be wrong.
Folks seem to come to this blog firstly to find work and secondly to chat. Although hot topics such as rate debates and potential scam warnings have sparked interest for days and days, I’m having a hard time remembering the last time any post here generated an intelligent long-term discussion. I’m sure a part of this is that we’re all very busy. But mostly I think it is just going to take a lot of work to get people here to the point where talking to each other (rather than at each other) is the norm, in the short term first — which is something I’m sure we probably see eye to eye on, Gigantaur. (Ask me how much calling someone Gigantaur makes me laugh. LOL)
Hmmm, interesting comments, and I have to admit that I’m disappointed many seemed to feel the post was about meeting deadlines versus good conversational content. So, my comments before my comments.
Meeting deadlines isn’t any issue for me. I haven’t missed one in three years and certainly am not about to start. I think that meeting deadlines is simply good professionalism and part of the job.
Exceeding expectations and delivering early is just smart business.
The post wasn’t about whether I could meet a deadline or not (my disclaimer) as some seemed to understand. It was about what type of content you want – short-term gratification or long-term potential? Which would you choose if you were hiring?
But no matter – that it was perceived as that type of post means that people feel strongly about deadlines in general.
Now, comments:
@ Amy – You have no idea how weird it feels to be called Gigantuar.
I agree with you. The long-term discussion here at FWJ could be better and most people don’t seem to have long-term memory as far as posts are related. As Deb mentioned earlier, the first post this week is dying down in commenting already.
However, I have to say that Megatron brought up an important point: Site design matters to a post’s longevity. Most regular two-column blogs lose all potential to maximize their content.
Deb’s blog here has a tabbed box to highlight good comment. A few extra widgets in the sidebar keeps other good content fresh and on the main page where it needs to be. Archives? Indeed. A well-organized archive page helps keep people reading too, and I know that FWJ is going to put one up soon. (Right, Deb?
Content and site presentation go hand in hand. Present it well and keep it where people need to see it. Or else, it’s gone. Buh-bye. (So don’t let that be your blog!)
@ Karen – You captured my post exactly as it was meant to be written. Thank you for that.
@ Deb – Exactly. There are advantages to being last to post (sneaky as that may be, and that was not my intention, by the way). There are many ways to use opportunities and what is usually the easy answer may not always be the only answer.
@ Ann – Ouch. Did it hurt? I’m sure it hurt. *wince* I’m jealous, but my fear is pain.
@ Dani – You brought up an interesting point, too. So many people online have variable schedules and even work in different time zones and days. So which day is the “right” day? Which moment in the week is the “right” week? I’m not sure there’s an easy answer there.
@ Phil – I’m with you. Meeting and exceeding deadlines often helps land a job… and keep a client long-term. That’s the best win-win around.
@ Morgan – It is a tough question, and you’re right, there are many shades of grey in it. Plenty of personal preferences, too, so that makes it even tougher!
@ Cherrye – Nah. People work in different ways. Some work best with lots of time, some work great under pressure. That perfectionism might not be doing you good, though… What do you fear would happen if you made a mistake and someone noticed it?
Gigantuar — I agree with everything you said in your reply to me, especially what you said about presentation. A combination of this discussion, something John (Poe War) said a while back, and something I just read at Blogging Without a Blog (the Kids/Candy Store post) have got me started thinking about making some changes to my blog to add an archives page and otherwise make certain posts more prominently featured/easily accessible. I don’t worry too much about my blog, because mine is more a personal/fun endeavor at this point, but I do want people to be able to find things and not walk away frustrated. Now that I’ve figured out how to install new templates for wordpress and upload nifty plugins — don’t die of shock anyone — I am considering switching themes altogether and setting it up to better maximize my content (a phrase I am stealing from you).
But enough about me. Back to the topic at hand… I just tonight came across a blog post that had nothing to do with writing (it was a legal blog) where the post was over a month old but folks were still discussing. I thought that was really cool, because lawyers in general don’t always have the whole blogging thing down yet. So that rocked. Then I got to thinking, after browsing through several other posts where the discussions seemed to go on forever, that if I were a regular subscriber of that blog or — even scarier — the blogger there, it would feel like a full time job to keep up just with the discussion. Of course, discussion is a good thing, but I also think it raises a new issue for freelance bloggers (those paid to blog for others). Right now, I don’t charge extra to moderate comments or keep discussions going, because I feel like I’m charging enough in general that the time spent there is covered. But, like the time spent digging, stumbling, etc., which I now do charge for, I would have to reevaluate my rate for a blog that got so popular and chatty that it turned into that much of a time commitment. I don’t want to take things too far off topic, but I think it’s at least semi-relative to what you’re talking about. Maybe. I’m tired.
“Valuable content is timeless.”
I think that “timeless content is valuable”, but short-lived content is as equally valuable.
Today’s Freelance Writing Jobs post, for example, is extremely valuable content, and I would hazard a guess that it is not timeless content that will inspire years of discussion or require the blogger to be there day in and day out months from now to comment in the thread. No one will really care too much about the valuable of this specific post a few weeks from now, but to the community of readers, this post is just as important as the ones that produce hundreds of comments and days of insightful discussion.
Your question was, “If you were in the hiring position, would you look for a person who offered short-term results because of speed or one who offered long-term return because of dedication?”
My answer would be, I would hire only the writer who could do both….. in a single post.
Aurora Wrote:
“Your question was, “If you were in the hiring position, would you look for a person who offered short-term results because of speed or one who offered long-term return because of dedication?”
My answer would be, I would hire only the writer who could do both….. in a single post.
”
I agree 100%.
@Gigantaur- You know the actually process of getting a tattoo wasn’t as bad as I would have thought. I didn’t go small, I chose a symbol I’d come across that is a square with two interlocking ovals covering it and it’s about a 3 inch design and then I used birthstone colors for each shape. My son and husband share a birth month, so they had emerald green, my daughter is sapphire and I’m amethyst. So the square is purple and then one oval is green and the other dark blue. On the fleshier part of the calf it really didn’t hurt much at all, but over the ankle bone it was a little more painful. Yet it isn’t real pain, it’s more like a sunburn sensation.
The harder part is sitting still for the two hours it took to complete. I had to sit on what was really a massage table with one leg dangling and the other on the table so that the side of my calf was facing upwards. After a while that position became annoying.
@ Aurora – Now *that* last line was damned well said.
I’ll agree with your point as well. There is short-term content that is valuable, and I did measure “value” as being the type of post to create inspiration, motivation or teach in some way. Since I blog daily as a full-time job, I get a little sidetracked in my ways
Nice catch.
@ Amy – CHANGE YOUR THEME??!! Ohmigod. *falls off chair*
That’s just the thing, though – people don’t have to settle for writing posts and forgetting them once the day goes by. There are many ways to put content back in the light, with easy widgets, linking out, different styles of themes…
As for commenting being a full-time job and uncompensated in any way, you are absolutely dead right and dead on. It’s a JOB. It’s a task that requires continual reading for a long, long time and it requires breaking away from paying work to come back to interact with people so they feel happy and heard.
It’s not an easy job, either. A comment comes along one year after a post goes live, and you have to 1) remember the post, 2) remember preceeding comments, 3) come comment without being redundent and 4) still add to the conversation – a year later. (And how many people surf the net each day? And what if every post written requires this?) Takes a good memory and willingness.
@ Ann – Brave, brave woman. I’ve always wanted a tattoo on my arm and I’m banking that when I do get up the courage to actually do it, it’s a nice fleshy part. ‘Course, I’ll probably be 70 by that time. Ugh.
I keep thinking, “What if he starts and I go OW! OH OW! STOP!” *sigh*
@Gigantaur @Ann – I used to work for a tattoo magazine (International Tattoo Art) and considered a tattoo. But after working there for a while and realizing a tattoo is permanent I passed. I can’t even keep the same hair color from one month to another. I’d be sick of a tattoo after the novelty wore off.
@Gigantuar – I think you did an excellent job of getting a very *thought-provoking* discussion going. I really had to stop, collect my own thoughts and ideas before attempting to add my comment.
@others – When I first considered a tattoo I was very worried about the “being permanent” issue. After having one for fifteen years now, I find that that has actually become irrelevant issue, because it becomes just another part of your body. Just like freckles, a mole, stretch marks, a scar — a person’s body is full of different types of permanent markings. In the end I am glad I decided to add a permanent mark that is beautiful; and one that was added by choice.
@ Deb – I can’t help but to think that working for a tattoo magazine would be an incredible and also a fun experience.
Gigantuar — Get back in your chair. LOL As for blogging, my list of questions to ask folks about their blogging needs keeps getting longer and longer before I determine my rates. This is hard enough for an already existing blog that already has an active readership, because things will hopefully grow and get better (with me on board — hehe). But for a brand new blog, it can be a real crapshoot trying to guestimate how much work will be involved moderating/discussion-wise. I’ve taken to signing on for an amount with a clause that we’ll both reevaluate the rate in three months. I will no longer sign a one year contract, unless it’s one where the pay is so spectacular that I know I won’t mind adding a lot of extra time and commitment to the project.
Tattoo people — I am too much of a chicken to get a tattoo. I get bored easily too. And I don’t have a fear of needles, but I do have a fear of disease. So I’m pretty sure it’s not for me. Now, those kid tattoos are fun. I could go for some of those. Temporary works for me, in most areas of my life.
@ Amy – Hey! I like standing on my chair, not sitting in it!
Yeah, I guess Gigantuar wouldn’t do much sitting. LOL