Have you ever noticed how some of the same places advertise for freelance writers over and over again?
Have you ever wondered why certain clients can’t seem to keep the same writers on staff and instead experience a high turnover rate?
If you’ve been writing for the web for some time, these questions are not too difficult to figure out. In fact, many times seeing the same sites advertising on all the job boards, almost every day, is very telling. Before you accept a job from a client with a high turnover rate, you might want to research why.
Here are a few reasons why a client may have a high turnover rate:
1. Low pay - Pay has a lot to do with a high turnover rate. Even though a blogger or writer agreed to a certain rate, many times they’ll feel it’s not worth the time spent writing and researching. Since blogging requires a lot more work with promotion and comment moderation, perhaps $1 per post or less doesn’t seem as attractive after the writer has done it for a few weeks.
2. The subject matter less than rocks - I like to use the pallet rack example. One of my early freelance writing clients was a construction website. I got to write about screws, hammers, cement mixers and pallet racks. The pay was OK but I was bored out of my skull writing about pallet racks day in and day out. Many writers take on assignments they don’t enjoy, but when they find a place they like better they move on.
3, The rules change. A lot. – Has this ever happened to you? After working for a client for a month or two his rules change. Perhaps the pay was lowered from $5 to $1 per blog post. Perhaps your employer changed his guidelines so he expects more work for less pay. Perhaps deadlines are coming quicker or word counts are changing. If the guidelines change on a monthly basis, writers don’t feel confident in their client and look to work for someone who makes them feel more secure.
4. It’s a good place to get experience…but that’s it. It’s not that anything is wrong with the client, only that the work and pay are good for an entry level writer. Just like most jobs, more experienced writers like to move on to more lucrative or prestigious opportunities. It’s nothing personal, just time to move on.
5. Management isn’t very nice or fair. Fortunately it’s a rare occurrence, but every now and then a freelance writer might land an opportunity to work for someone who isn’t very pleasant. Who wants to be snapped at all the time? I spent four years working for a “Devil Wears Prada” boss. I’m over it.
6. Demands increase but pay doesn’t. If your workload is growing but your paycheck isn’t, something’s wrong. Writers don’t like it when their clients take advantage.We can handle reasonable requests, but if you’re giving us more work, expect the bill to go up as well.
7. The client doesn’t agree to a pay increase. Everyone has the right to request a cost of living increase. It’s why you get annual raises in the real world. Writers shouldn’t be afraid to re-asses their situations each year and see if a pay increase is in order. From my experience, clients will do everything possible to keep a good writer on the payroll. There are some that balk when a writer increases his hourly rate.
There are many reasons writers move on. The most common reasons are opportunity and pay. 500 articles for $1 clients don’t keep writers for long. It’s the clients who have reasonable expectations and pay a realistic wage who are rewarded with loyalty.
Oh, so true. All of us – especially starting freelancers – do the $1/500 thing at least once, but move on fast. I have a good example of loyalty going on right now that shows both sides of the coin: I do two paid guest-blogging positions, which both pay the same (low) rate.
One I will be doing for the next four or five months, happily, because it asks for 250 posts and the client is REALLY nice, flexible, leaves me to the job (i.e. trusts me to do it properly) and praises good work. Although I’m only paid for 5 days in 7, I usually post on all 7 because it’s fun, I know the gig will continue, the client has been flexible when I’ve NOT been able to post and, well, I kinda want the site to succeed because nice folks deserve that!
The other I will be dropping at the end of the first month unless they offer a pay raise – not only does it ask for 350+ posts (at the same rate, remember), but the client’s a pain in the butt, constantly sending requests for extra posts, certain subjects and so on. Basically, it’s like having a manager who can’t leave you alone to do the work.
Thanks for yet another great post that not only helps us beginners with some background, but also makes us stop and think of what some clients are doing: paying low and using up a lot of the more naive writers’ talent for peanuts.
First time commenting but definitely not first time posting… I love this site. : )
I do 7 to 9 posts a week for a relatively successful fashion blog (won’t name names) and they pay $9 each. Sometimes that’s a lot because I can get done with 2 in an hour. But sometimes it’s barely anything if a post requires a lot of research or reworking. Overall, I’m not compensated what I should be.
Plus, the editor is super super picky and demanding and inconsistent, so they’re hard to please. They also change their mind all the time about how much work they want from me, sometimes they want me to contribute more, other times they tell me to back off. I’m telling you – the mixed messages and incomplete info they give me, while expecting me to know precisely what’s expected of me – is a constant battle.
Recently, I complained to them for not paying me for a post they didn’t use – but they changed the angle of the post more than once, so I had to rewrite it like two separate times. They came back at me saying it was a privilege to write for them and basically I should be grateful I’m even allowed to post for them (they didn’t say those last words verbatim but that was clearly the message).
But I keep doing it, because it’s good experience and at least it pays something.
I’ve hinted that I need to get paid more per post (like they pay the same for a wide variety of posts that require different investments of time) but they are incredibly stubborn and would rather me leave than pay me more. Another willing writer will just take my place. So, I don’t have any leverage really.
Seems many clients just think writers want clips for their next job and should be grateful for the opportunity. Well, clients, you ARE our next jobs! Respect our time. I certainly respect yours.
Oh, and just to clarify – I will be able to invoice them for the unused post, so they did give me that. Just not happily. : )
$9 a post is very nice. Mine are down at $2, but take little effort/time (except the annoying one…). I can’t seem to find those lovely $5+ gigs.
I think you guys are nuts for writing for $9 a post (this is good?) or $2 a post. This is what is WRONG with the freelancing business. Someone is always willing to come along and lowball it. I honestly don’t understand why you do it or how you pay the bills. If I used up my time writing for such low rates, I would ever have any time to look for higher paying jobs. I can understand writing for free or for low rates for a VERY short period of time to build up a portfolio, but why continue to do this? I really do wish someone would explain it to me, because I am truly baffled and more than a little sick of slogging through ads from low-paying freelance writing jobs. THe proliferation and acceptance of these slave-wage jobs is downgrading the entire profession. Let employer’s who want us to work go off-shore for workers and for the most part, they will get what they pay for. Junk.
Thanks.
Ugh. I wish I could edit my post. I hit send too quickly (before thoroughly proofreading) and there are typos. This is something I harp on all the time. Sorry for the errors. I do know they are there. This subject just gets me all stirred up.
Mary -
I’m a full time copywriter for a successful local company and that’s how I pay my bills. I make a good salary, full benefits, and other perks, etc. I do freelancing on the side and have a few clients.
I agree with everything you’re saying but seems your reply was a bit hasty.
Mary,
Why? Because the market’s flooded with writers and the people who will pay $20 for a 300-word blog post are incredibly rare. You say that the “proliferation and acceptance of these slave-wage jobs is downgrading the entire profession” – I see EXACTLY the same thing said all the time, but I have yet to find ANYONE who can point me (or my low-paid compatriots) to these high-paying (or even decent-paying) jobs. Where are they? If there are so many, why aren’t we able to find them?
Seriously, I’d love to know.
Spike,
I never said there were “so many,” but looking for them online is not how I’ve found better paying gigs. The better paying gigs I’ve gotten are from getting out and meeting people off-line. I go to networking meetings, conferences and other off-line business events. I have found some moderate-pay writing assignments online (for webcopy and e-books), but generally I find that jobs posted online are low-pay and a waste of time.
I don’t think $20 for a 500 word article is fair either, unless I can complete it in 30 minutes. I charge between $75 and $150 an article, depending on length and the amount of research required. The key, for me, is finding clients off-line. If it doesn’t break down to at least $20 an hour, it’s just not worth my time. I don’t make the bulk of my income with blog posts, but with other business writing (web copy, brochures, press releases, reports, etc.)
Thanks for the tip on HeliumWriter. I had not seen that site before. It seems that if you can get accepted as a Premium Writer, they post some better-paying jobs. The downside is that it appears to be spec writing.
Laura,
Yes, it was a bit hasty. The topic does hit a certain hot-button for me. I’m glad, very glad, you’ve got a good full-time writing job. Some of us however, are trying to make it as full-time independent writers. Perhaps that is why I have a little different reaction than you. I really do have to pay my bills, one word a time, as a freelancer. What I reacted to was the notion that “good” pay is $9 for a 500-word blog post. I feel that as long as writers are willing to accept those wages, as a whole, we’ll never get what we deserve.
Good paying gigs are hard to find, but I can’t spend my time writing for nothing or I’ll have no time to search for fair-wage jobs. I just picked up a job re-writing a web site that is just wretched. They paid a low price to an offshore worker and got what they paid for. Garbage. I found this job online, but the client had already experienced a bad result from a low-paid writer. Getting fair compensation was a little easier in this case.
Blogging-for-pay is a little different animal. Some work, like yours I’m sure, is quality work. Unfortunately, what you and Spike seem to be saying is that you’re getting paid the same pay as those that are filling the internet with junk. I don’t know what the answers are, but I do know that it’s frustrating when I see $9 an article referred to as “good” pay. Writers have to eat, too.
Thanks for reading.
Mary
Mary,
I totally agree that jobs that don’t average out to at least $20 an hour are really not worth it. But I’m still starting out – only been out of college for I guess almost 2 years or something like that, so I’ll put up with it for a little while longer.
To clarify, I get $9 for 200 – 300 words usually… so it’s a bit better than $500. And it is more than worth it on occasion but for the most part, I’m way underpaid for the effort I put into it. Just adding to my portfolio. Plus it is fun writing and it’s directly useful to readers on a daily basis. If it wasn’t, I likely wouldn’t still be doing it.
I, like you, though am so frustrated at how underappreciated writers are by so many clients. I’m even slightly underpaid at my FT job.
It really is a shame isn’t it? I’ve got 25+ years of business experience and many more than that of life experience. From what I can tell, programmers and designers get decent pay? Why not us? Writing well is a highly developed skill.
Best of luck to you.
Mary
Mary,
Thanks for clarifying. I’ve noticed the same thing: online gigs are low-pay. But then that’s what we’re talking about here – online gigs. Generally low-quality, ten-minute jobs that don’t hold any deep thought (MTV-generation content, if you like! LOL)
I can’t work in an office due to health problems, so I have no choice but to take $2/post rubbish until I can get better – it doesn’t pay the bills, but it gives me some extra income between the occasional sales of better (higher quality) articles via Constant Content and so on.
At the moment, I’m effectively in direct competition with the junk-writers, and those who use Babelfish to convert documents into English. It takes time to build up reputation and, what with not being able to do a ‘proper’ job (i.e. 8 hours in an office), I’m afraid I shall continue to damage the pay rates until such time as people see that silly photo and go “Hey, you’re Spike, right? Here, let me pay you a decent wage for your time.”
Incidentally, I have more than a decade of IT experience and no, designers and programmers don’t get good wages in general. The graphics people sometimes do, though they have to be really good. Most of it’s outsourced and they’re losing their jobs faster than the writers are (the language barrier saves us a bit). My last full-time IT job paid the equivalent (roughly) of $11/hour – five or six years ago, I was earning about four times that.
We take what we can get. Of course, once I publish an incredibly popular fiction novel and become more famous than Bill Shakespeare, everything will be just dandy…
I know what it is to struggle with work and health problems. I deal with them too, which is one of the reasons that I work from home. Still, I find that the more I can get out and attend business functions, the better my income is. I encourage you to make off-line contacts if you can. The better money is definitely in writing for business.
Good luck with that novel!
Best wishes,
Mary
I, too, don’t take on any projects that work out to be less than $20 per hour (and sometimes no less than $25 per hour). My skills are worth something, and I won’t accept slave wages.
Just think how much harder you have to work and how easily you can burn out working for such low wages. It’s just not worth it. I guess if money really isn’t an issue and you really need to break in, then go for it. But for most of us who need the money, you have to set your pay standards high.
Freelance writing is a lot like having a regular job in the outside world, and you can get a lot of gigs via referrals. I write for magazines, but am currently branching out into copywriting, which commands higher pay. The assignments I am getting are all through referrals from friends. I’m working with small businesses right now, which is a great opportunity to start. If you are confident in your writing skills and want to make money in copywriting, try approaching local businesses and see if they need any web content or other type of writing done. The well-paying jobs aren’t found on Craig’s List and freelance writing sites for the most part. You have to go out and create those opportunities for yourself.
Must be nice to enjoy the caviar that the good paying gigs afford. For the rest of us, there’s beans and pork which the low paying gigs can pay for. People who are hungry are generally happy with eating beans and pork, or even rice and fish, hence the reason there are always going to be plenty of folks out there accepting $1-2/article for wages.
@ Mike – $2 per blog post is slavery. I don’t mean to make you feel bad and I know that at least its money coming in. But please know that there are blogging jobs out there that pay better. I get paid upwards of $20 for a blog post.
Keep looking. You’ll land the better paying jobs. In fact, you’ll find them on freelance writing gigs itself through their excellent job leads.
Interesting reaction. This wasn’t meant to be a “low wages” post – only that there are many reasons a client experiences high turnover and that we should research these reasons before accepting a job.
As for low wages, everyone’s circumstances are different. Yes, I do believe $1 or $5 is slave wages and the client is taking advantage, but also believe there are times there is no choice but to accept these jobs. Take these jobs if you must, and then move on after you have enough experience to move on to the next level.
As far as better wages, we don’t post anything here paying under $10/gig. Most of the jobs pay above that. I’m noticing an upwards trend for bloggers especially with $20 – $50 per post.
That was my limit too, when just starting out. Never accept anything paying under $10.
Again, I’m not knocking anyone for doing what he or she has to – just want to make you aware that there are much better opportunities out there.
Deb,
I think steven said it best. Fish and rice. Heck, I’m happy with dry bread and water – at least I’m eating.
I know there does seem to be an upward trend. Part of the problem is location – many US blogs which pay nicely don’t want people who aren’t contactable outside work hours. Part of it is subjects – I don’t want to blog about marketing (which to me is a profession of lies) or business trends. Part of it is over-subscription – your opps posted here are great, but what’s the ratio of opps:visitors? Pretty low, at a guess.
I just finished a $50 editing job, which has taken me probably 5-6 hours in all. It’s rubbish pay, but it’s only the first batch, so it’s taken longer (making a good first impression and getting into the swing of it). To me, this was good money – it’s better than the others, is ongoing and the company’s nice (which makes a huge difference, IMHO). There’s also enough of it that I’m in for a few hundred dollars and a nice, solid bit of feedback. Maybe the next gig will be caviar.
Pass the butter, please.
A few points:
a blog entry can take as little time as posting a comment – that is, a few minutes. It is quite possible to post 2-3 blog entries in an hour, with no pain. You can also do this at any time. I see nothing wrong with taking on some of these opportunities: the cash DOES add up.
if you’re building up your blog readership, you may have to cope with lower pay with the expectation of higher pay over time. This may not be an ideal, but for some of us the ability to write about what we love is worth a few extra minutes a day.
new freelancers can’t expect to make big bucks. they don’t have clips to show, or references to call. that’s one good reason to DO the small jobs: to get those clips and references.
there are quite a few high-paying gigs available online: I’ve already (since December) landed several multi-thousand dollar gigs through this site. Most of these are specialized (major grants, for example) – but not all.
Lisa
I have to agree with the ones questioning the blog posting rates, with the caveat that I still don’t see enough monetization of blogging for anything more than very low income ***I’m willing to admit I could be wrong*** But even $9 per blog — higher than a lot of rates I see — is barely above minimum wage after taking out “employers” side of FICA, overhead of an office, etc.
Phil,
And that is if you can write it in under an hour. I haven’t seen too much that is written in less than an hour that is worth reading. One of my complaints about the internet today is the amount of really poor content. My friend, Charles, has devoted his blog to improving the quality of content. See http://www.wordful.com.
Mary
Mary, you say “I haven’t seen too much that is written in less than an hour that is worth reading. One of my complaints about the internet today is the amount of really poor content.”
I disagree.
Blogging (as opposed to fiction writing, feature writing, etc.), IMHO, is really all about quick, short expression of ideas, insights, questions, tips… and I see no reason at all why an experienced writer can’t write a creditable blog post in a very short time (20 minutes).
And on the topic of fiction writing, poetry writing, short story writing… I’ve noticed that most writers are quite comfortable with the idea that “creative” work should be written on spec, with only the slimmest possibility that it will ever see the light of day (much less become the source of a lucrative income stream).
Yet blogging, which is also a form of creative self-expression, is seen as pointless if it doesn’t turn around the big bucks.
Honestly, even at $1 a post, most blogs return more $ than most poems and short stories!
Lisa
Lisa,
I stand by my statement. Most of it isn’t worth reading. Go to the best blogs, and I will bet that MOST (not all) of the good content took considerably more than 20 minutes to write, edit, proof, and post. Just my two cents.
You are probably right about poems and short stories. I’ve never written fiction (poems mostly) that I’ve wanted to try and publish. I write them in my journal, just for myself.
Interesting conversation. I’m not attacking anyone here. I’m just posting my opinion about most internet content. Charles at wordful.com does a good job of explaining what I am aiming at. If a blog post is just like what I am doing here, casual conversation, then it’s not content that I am interested in.
Take the post that started this conversation. I’ll bet that Deb worked pretty hard to make sure that it was well-written and something worth sharing.
Mary
P.S. On the other hand, maybe I sweat over the quality of my content too much, but since I write about writing, I feel I’m obligated to aspire to write well and have something interesting to say. Please don’t take my comments personally. I am writing in generalities. It could also be a generational difference. I’m probably twice your age and I may view content differently than younger people. This doesn’t make my viewpoint better, just different.
hmmm… perhaps we’re differing because we write at different speeds? But let’s back up a sec. Look at the post you just wrote, which, as you note, is casual and conversational (not literary, scholarly, etc.).
Now, take a look – not at HuffPo or Slate or Salon – but, for example, at some of the top blogs in areas like parenting or homeschooling (two areas I’m interested in). You’ll find that the blog posts, far from being carefully researched, are about tiny personal topics. Many are written in a very casual, conversational style – and some are as short as 200 words.
Yet readership is high, there are dozens of appreciative comments, and plenty of advertising.
My point: blogging is a particular craft/art, and it is often APPROPRIATELY casual, conversational, brief, off the cuff. A good writer can write a solid blog quickly, because that’s really the nature of blogging.
On the other hand, if by blogging you’re really describing researched articles in major online publications, you’re absolutely right: it isn’t a quick casual project. But IMHO that’s not the type of blogging gig that’s advertised for a few bucks a pop on this site.
Lisa
Mary,
I agree. I was giving posters the benefit of the doubt. I’ve been writing for 30 years, and figure 250 words an hour, including research, phone calls, and the actual writing, is top speed, and even that isn’t sustainable for too long.
I’m going to bow out of this conversation as I feel we are starting to repeat ourselves and that some are taking my comments personally.
Thanks for an interesting exchange!
I’m not sure I’ve found my “niche” yet – as I’m a copywriter but a blogger on the side. Blogging is indeed a unique craft, one I’ve hardly mastered. In fact, I would dare say it’s HARDER than writing a long, well-researched article. It’s kind of like writing a news headline versus writing the actual article. Sometimes the headline’s the hardest part!
Anyways, blogging also has so many “sub-genres” that’s hard to talk about it too generally. The fashion blogs I do, for instance, are all well-researched but researching tips on how to get cheap makeup or whatever doesn’t take a day and a year. The blog posts vary – one might be “how to dress like this celeb” and another could be summing up some fashion news – so some take more time than others.
Personally, I feel I’m underpaid but there are many instances where I’m averaging 30 bucks and hour and putting out quality posts.
I hope nobody took my comment personally either. I just wanted others to know that if someone is willing to pay you $1 per assignment, then there’s someone else out there who is willing to pay a fair rate. I think we all need to believe in our skills a little more and ask for a higher rate. Just try — and see what happens!
Mary: I don’t think anyone took anything personally – we all just feel strongly about the subject, in our own ways.
Phil: 250 words/hr is slow for many employers, because they don’t consider research time. Most are thinking “2 articles an hour”, from what I see – though, again, we’re talking blog-style or low quality.
Laura: I’m the other way round to you – mostly blogger, part copywriter. It’s an odd mix, isn’t it? Terribly serious on the one hand and completely superficial on the other (taking extremes, obviously). I’m definitely with you on the thinking – it’s the same for me. Most blog posts are simply regurgitation of something already said, especially those for third parties. Our own blogs are a different matter.
m: “ask for a higher rate. Just try — and see what happens!” – in general, this: “Your bid has been refused: Pay rate is too high”. Doesn’t mean we won’t keep trying, though!
Low pay- I agree, 100 percent.
Spike,
I conduct a lot of interviews in the nature of my work. Sometimes it takes 10-15 minutes just to get a subject to address a point. Other times they go off on all kinds of different tangents, and it takes time to steer them back to the subject matter at hand. So 250 words an hour might actually be fast.
Phil, my work has required me to do a lot of interviews, too, so I know exactly where you’re coming from. I’m not going to take a low-paying gig that requires me to not only do interviews but also write because that’s going to take that much more time. I’ve gotten to the point though that I don’t even apply for jobs like that. If a gig requires research time as well as writing time, it should pay appropriately for it.
So why do freelance writers keep leaving certain jobs? Low pay. Burnout. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Typically, blogging requires minimal research and interviewing, which is why I consider it to be quick work. Often, I post a 250-word opinion piece – which, because it IS an opinion piece, can take just a few minutes to write. I get quite a bit of response, so figure I must be doing something right.
Meanwhile, tho – here’s a question. A client offers you $250 for an 800 word article. The client wants as many as 4-6 interviews, several revisions, and photos. Obviously, this job could take as long as 16-24 hours to complete. The pay, frankly, stinks. Yet this client is… CNN.com.
Do you do it??
Lisa
I’d take that particular job. It’s not great pay for the amount of work, but it’s not unheard of, either. And the exposure for doing a project for such a high-profile client would be terrific.
Hi Spike,
I was referring to upping your rates to see how a client responds. They always say to initially quote $5 or $10 more per hour to see if they’ll accept. If they think it’s too high, you can negotiate down to what your lowest acceptable rate is.
For example, I recently did a proofreading project for a small business. I was going to say $20/hour at first, but quoted them $25/hour and they didn’t complain. Instant raise! That’s what I love about freelancing.
I still hold to the belief that the best gigs out there are not published online. Clients on those bidding websites are only looking for the cheapest labor, and it’s not fair to the writers. Instead, start talking to your friends and family, or any small local businesses about writing any kind of content for them to start getting writing samples. That’s how I’m getting started, and none of them advertised on CL or elance or anywhere for that matter.
I agree that it’s always worth trying to ask for more if you think it’s warranted. I was afraid a new client would turn me down when I quoted her my hourly rate recently, and she said, “Sounds fine to me.” What a relief.
This is a very interesting – and if you’re still here, Mary, I totally agree with what you say.
If we write good quality articles, I don’t see why we should accept low pay. I will not just write an article or blog post in just a few minutes just to make the low pay worth while because I do not think I would be writing well, and I will not lower my standards. It wouldn’t do me any good.
If writers stopped accepting such small amounts of pay, then clients would not able to take advantage.
And why should we accept lower amounts of pay just because it’s online? Should online writing be lower quality than any other kind? I don’t think so.
Ros
Ros, you say – . “I will not just write an article or blog post in just a few minutes just to make the low pay worth while because I do not think I would be writing well, and I will not lower my standards. It wouldn’t do me any good.”
I don’t really understand why taking a longer time to write necessarily increases the quality of writing. Granted that it’s important to review and edit any piece of writing, I don’t believe that quality can be measured by hours spent.
This perspective reminds me of scientists I’ve worked with who believe that content is “dumbed down” when a writer uses simple English (the study of ancient climates) as opposed to the scientific term (paleoclimatology).
IMHO, while there are times when very careful, in-depth research, review, drafting, fact checking and scholarly language are appropriate, there are times when a quick, pithy blog post is the right choice. One person may love Flaubert, who took forever to write a few lines – while another might prefer the works of Isaac Asimov (who churned em out almost monthly!).
Both have value.
Lisa
Lisa,
No one is talking about using “scholarly” language. I always advocate simple, straight-forward language. You are putting words in mine and Ros’s mouths and making some pretty big assumptions. Nobody is attacking you personally. I don’t read fashion and make-up blogs, so I have no idea what is appropriate there.
Ros,
Thanks.
Mary, I don’t particularly read handbag or makeup blogs either (I write mainly about autism, education, and science for a wide range of clients). In some cases, I write very quickly for a deadline. In some cases I do in-depth research. Sometimes I write for kids. Sometimes I write hints and tips.
These are very different types of writing – and IMHO – one is not necessarily better or worse than another.
If I did write about handbags or makeup, I don’t think I’d spend a lot of time crafting prose. Rather, I’d spend the lion’s share of my time checking out the quality of the product.
I’m certainly not advocating poor grammar or writing! I am saying that the amount of time one spends writing a particular piece is not always the most important issue to consider. And I guess I’m also saying that sometimes a quick, clever blog post is just fine!
Lisa
Mary, I think you may have gotten a little defensive there. Lisa (correct me if I’m wrong) was just making the point that not all writing assignments require lots of in-depth interviews, research and writing. Some truly only require a few pithy comments that you could dash off from the top of your head. And in that case, the pay differential might make sense. Believe me, I want to get paid as much as possible just as much as the next person! But I probably wouldn’t get too upset if I got lower pay for a quickie comment that takes me 15 minutes to hammer out versus a long feature piece that required lots of additional reporting. That just makes sense.
Thanks, Jennifer!
It’s also the case that pay seems to vary idiosyncratically. I’ve been paid better for tiny assignments than for big ones… and I’ve had huge corporations pay peanuts while little mom and pop shops have paid much more.
That said, certain TYPES of writing do pay more than others. Often, that’s not because of work involved or time spent in reearch, but rather because of perception. That is, it’s assumed that ad copy should be paid more highly because, after all, advertising is a niche specialty (HOW much for “Coke Is It???”).
In my line of work (most education/non-profit), I make much more to write grants than to write curricula. It doesn’t necessarily take longer – nor is it necessarily more difficult – to write a grant, but since other people are scared of writing grants, they’re willing to pay more LOL!
Lisa
I had promised myself I wouldn’t come back to this discussion, because it goes round and round, but there are a couple of things I couldn’t resist.
Firstly, I agree that writing crap does nobody any good – that’s not what Lisa or I are talking about, Ros. We’re talking about simpler posts that often come straight out of our heads and don’t need hours to build. They’re simply not going to get any better if they’re left to simmer for another hour, because they’re train-of-thought content.
Secondly, the statement “If writers stopped accepting such small amounts of pay, then clients would not able to take advantage” is so far from the truth that it’s not even funny. Three words: free market economics.
Thirdly, there’s no reason online pay should be less than real-world pay. It is, but it shouldn’t be.
That’s not the point, though. The point is the difficulty in finding decent-paying jobs online and not finding them in the local pub – as seems to be the case for virtually everyone here who has a good client base.
Oh, and Lisa – autism? Totally cool. My partner’s a psychologist… wildly interesting topic!
lisa,
I would probably take the CNN work only because I could probably work it around other things I’m doing in the day. I try to schedule interviews so I can work on several projects in a day. Just received an assignment from Asia that requires me to talk to someone in Belgium, which means dealing with a lot of different time zones…so with a good schedule, the CNN item would provide some decent income.
I have a different view than a few days ago, I just found out the non-insurance portion of my daughter’s back surgery is $50,000, so I have to take in a lot of stuff.
Ignoring the work & turnover rates discussion for a moment: good luck with that, Phil. Hope it all goes smoothly for her.
Phil – I’m so sorry about your daughter AND the cash. That’s absolutely outrageous… thought having a tooth replaced was a big deal!
A few possible directions you might want to explore:
If you’re really interested in the $250 CNN and Weather.com gigs, the New York Times Co has a custom pub group called LifeWire that does assign these – here’s one of mine: http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/02/22/sr.musicians/
I can also tell you that Tonic.com is a good gig to consider: they pay quite nicely ($150 and up) for articles, and they’re much pleasanter to work with than the NYT…
About.com (also New York Times) is not a bad gig, especially if you pick a topic that has ecommerce possibilities… they do pay regularly, though NOT copiously.
Lastly: if you have an interest, you might want to consider federal grant writing. I can make multiple thousands writing a single federal grant (I only write non-technical educational grants, mostly to NSF and NEH). Have found several really lucrative grant gigs through this site alone (though have many outside contacts).
Lisa
Phil, my God. I am sorry. I hope you can get some high-paying work fast to help pay for your daughter’s medical bills. Good luck to you and especially to her!
Lisa,
I am just curious but how does one go about getting a CNN LifeWire assignment?
Lisa,
Thanks for the leads. Grant writing is a different skill — I’m a trained journalist.
Hospital and doctors will offer payment plans. Another affiliated hospital gave me five years to pay off surgery for another daughter 10 years ago, but the amount was a lot less.
Never get me going on why we need health care reform…My soap box just got bigger and higher with these bills. The good thing is that my daughter is better (she needeed back fusion surgery and was in a lot of pain before it was done, basically pain free now).
Phil, I hope everything works out for you and your daughter.
I think the key is research, research, research. I always find time to research gigs. Sometimes I stumble on some really high paying ones too but no doubt the competition is very tough.
There are some excellent paid ones out there you’ve just got to find them. Also, the CNN doesn’t sound too bad, should be ideal for a journalist like yourself. All adds to the portfolio.
Opportunity knocks!