I spent a few minutes with him discussing how freelance writers can build their own personal brands in order to build their businesses.  Dan’s insightful answers to my questions are included below.  Be sure to read the Building Your Freelance Writing Brand series here on Freelance Writing Jobs for more information about how you can start developing your own brand to boost your writing business.

Susan Gunelius: How can freelance writers benefit from personal branding?  What can they learn in your book that can help them get started?

Dan Schawbel: Over 30% of the US population is freelancers, and in my opinion, everyone should have a freelancer’s mentality. You should always be looking for work and new opportunities, even if you have a full-time job.

Being a freelancer makes it easy and critical to build a personal brand. Freelancers can benefit from personal branding because they need to differentiate themselves, be found online through searches, and build portfolios to display their work. A freelance web designer will be judged based off of the website they create for themselves, and writers will be judged based on online clips from published sources. Me 2.0 helps freelancers discover, create, communicate, and maintain their brand over the course of their lives. It’s imperative to take advantage of your brand now, so that you can attract the right opportunities.

Susan Gunelius: What is your response to someone who says they don’t need a website or an online presence for their freelance writing business?

Dan Schawbel: I would probably look at them like they were crazy, to be honest. It’s hard to imagine a freelancer that doesn’t have a web presence. For freelancers, I recommend that you have your own website (yourfullname.com), as well as your full name as a vanity URL on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. It’s also important to have your full name as an email address (first.last@gmail.com is what I recommend). If you don’t have an online presence, you won’t be found which is a major competitive disadvantage. I haven’t made one sales pitch in three years. I get new clients and opportunities based on being found, and it works.

Susan Gunelius: You’ve achieved a lot of success at a young age and even have an internationally best selling book to your credit.  Could you share some of the story of how you got to this point and specifically share the story of how you got your first book published?

Dan Schawbel: I wrote the entire story on my blog in length, but will summarize it for you! I had eight internships, seven leadership positions, and a consulting company during college. I got each internship by showcasing my “personal branding toolkit,” which was composed of my business card, a website, resume, cover letter, references document, and a CD portfolio of my work. This impressed employers and I considered it to be “marketing myself” back then before I knew the term “personal branding.” Despite all of this hard work, I was afraid to network, so it took me eight months, meeting fifteen people, and getting rejected twice, to get a job at EMC corporation.

I started the Personal Branding Blog on March 14th 2007, and then created a video series, wrote articles for magazines, started the Personal Brand Awards, and launching Personal Branding Magazine on August 1st with an interview between Donald Trump and Guy Kawasaki. Fast Company wrote about my six month journey, and my life changed at rapid speed. I was asked to speak at Google and was recruited internally by a VP to lead the social media efforts in communications at EMC. I had the idea to write Me 2.0, once I flipped the recruitment process over, and was given a job based on my personal brand outside of work. I went through seventy agents, and three publishers, before I received my publishing deal with Kaplan in January of 2008. I started my company in January of this year.

Susan Gunelius: For a freelance writer who does not yet have a website, blog or other branded online destinations, what are the first steps they should take to begin developing their personal brand?

Dan Schawbel: The easiest part is crafting your online presence, and the hardest part is to figure out what you’re passionate about, what your current writing skills are and what you need to improve, as well as your short and long-term goals. Ask yourself “where do I want to go with my career, and in twenty years, what do I want to do”? Then, craft your personal brand and your long-term positioning. It’s not about the job you’re doing now, but where it all leads you in the end. That’s what counts! What’s your mission, your values, and what lasting impact do you want to have on the world?

Susan Gunelius: Many freelance writers are confused about how to brand themselves online — their personal name, a business name, a pseudonym?  What do you recommend from a brand-building/business-building standpoint?

Dan Schawbel: If you’re a freelancer, than you are your business, so you have to brand yourself, and not some random corporate name. You don’t have a team, which means if people hire you, they get YOU. I recommend that you use your name everywhere, and connect it to your expertise.

Susan Gunelius: What are your thoughts on writing for websites for free as a marketing effort to build your brand?  I’m a strong proponent of it but many freelance writers can’t make the shift in thinking from requiring payment for their writing to using it as a marketing/advertising/publicity tool.  Where do you stand on that debate?

Dan Schawbel: That is an extremely good question Susan. As an expert in my field, I look at freelancing as a loss leader and something that is used to just promote my book and other assets. I never set out to make a living off of writing for magazines or sources. For writers who depend on money to survive, you should charge based on your experience, talents, and supply/demand for what you cover. If you need to write a few articles for free to get a brand on your resume, it could be a good idea for you. The only problem is that you’re writing won’t be looked highly upon and it might hurt your chances of getting paid by that brand later.

Susan Gunelius: What’s next for Dan Schawbel?

Dan Schawbel: I’m working on a new book concept right now that I can’t reveal of course. I’m launching the 14th issue of Personal Branding Magazine on November 1st, which I’m very excited about. I’m also speaking at Harvard Business School this month, and receiving an award by the Massachusetts Governor. You won’t see me expand my platform by creating more websites and blogs anytime soon. My goal for the short-term is to build upon what I already have, and create a monetization funnel that can support me and my employees. I see live events as being a huge part of that, especially since that’s where TechCrunch and Mashable make all their money.

Susan Gunelius: Where can Freelance Writing Jobs readers go to learn more about you and your book?

Dan Schawbel: Personalbrandingbook.com and on Amazon.

About Dan Schawbel

“My words were taken out of context.”

Two phrases no writer, nor their editor, want to hear. Quoting sources is not as easy as people make it out to be. There are rules to quotes and too often those rules are ignored.

” ” Means Exactly Said

First big point. When you put a person’s words in ” ” you are telling the reader that the words within the quotation marks are written exactly the way the person said them. Word for word. No fudging. If you miss words or add words you are then changing the quote. The quote is now a lie. It doesn’t matter if you think they meant to say something. If they didn’t say it, it doesn’t belong there.

[ ] Comes in handy

Now, I just said you cannot add words to a quote. Actually you can, but I really wanted to drive the point home first [ ] – these handy little brackets can be used to clarify a quote. Sometimes, actually quite often, when people are talking they’ll skip words or give a good quote, but within that quote they don’t mention the subject. That’s when you can add words with a bracket around them. For example:

“I really hated it [cooking with chefs], but it gave me the experience I needed to grill a great salmon.” or “It’s an important time in [a] teen’s life, getting their license is so exciting.”

The brackets either help clarify who or what the person is talking about for the reader or inserts a minor word that doesn’t change the scope, meaning or intention of the quote. Back in the day, one of my journalism teachers said, if you have to add too many words to make the quote make sense, it’s not a good quote.

Great advice – and did you notice how I didn’t add quotations? It’s because I’m not sure of the exact wording he used.

Brackets are also used in conjunction with [sic]. The term, without getting into the Latin behind it, means – the information you just read had something wrong with it, we know it, but to keep it as a direct quote we didn’t change it. You’ll see this often when someone is quoting a written source that has an error, but it can be used at other times. For example: The note found in the gag read, “All teachers must have a hall pass and a note from their students to use the retroom [sic].”

In writing, little things mean a lot. Take extra care with your quotes to prevent bigger headaches for you and your editor later.

Can you ever leave words out? Yep, but you’ll have to check back on Tuesday to find out more! I’ll also cover when to use quotes. Let’s have a little fun – leave your favorite quote below!

Deep down, you never really thought Professor Large Brain would glance at your email or return your call. You were perfectly happy with Professor Adequate Brain who you knew would jump at the chance to chime in our your piece. Now you have all that brain to yourself for at least an hour. Now what?

High Five Yourself.

Let’s get it out the way now, go ahead and look at yourself in the mirror and wink. It’s okay. We all do it. It’s an accomplishment when you land any source and some sources, well, you just have to strut for a minute. Take a deep breath and remember this feeling for the next time a source refuses to acknowledge your existence.

Stop panicking.

It’s normal to feel a little nervous before interviewing a source, but keeping your emotions in check is essential to doing your best. Leave the awe and self-doubt at home. You’ve got a job to do – get the info – and besides most interviewees are more nervous than the writer. Another perk? Most seasoned sources like talking about themselves or hearing themselves talk which makes it easier on you. Just remember to reign them in from time to time!

Do the prep work.

Taking time to prepare and research for the interview will help the interview flow smoothly. When interviewing someone who is often a source, it takes a bit of research to come up with questions that haven’t been asked a million times. It also takes digging to find the real facts about the person instead of the widely reported, but often incorrect tidbits of legend.

Treat it the same.

Yes, it’s awesome to interview the President of the United States – or so I hear – and it’s just as awesome to interview your local fire fighter or elected official because no one has to talk with you! Every writer has a groove they like to get into before, during and after an interview. Stick with what works. Do the pre-interview checklist: batteries, paper, pen, back-ups. Take notes just the way you always do. This might not be the right time to try out a new digital recorder.

Landing a big source is a wonderful accomplishment. Being able to keep your head before, during and after is what separates the pros from the newbies.

We writers have become comfortable interviewing sources through all the different electronic means and this has opened up a world of possibilities for freelancers to contact sources from around the world without ever having to leave their home or put a note on their expense account. With these advances in technology, we have begun to move away from the best interviewing style imaginable – face-to-face work.

Whenever possible, writers should work to meet with their sources in person. Now, before the majority of you get your noses out of joint, I don’t mean traveling on your own dime – without reimbursement – to Bali to get a three sentence quote about a specialized tree. I’m talking about lengthy interviews with people in your own area.

Get out and meet those people!

Three major reasons that an in-person interview is better than a phone interview or email interview:

No distraction.

A phone interview  is convenient. No one has to get dressed, and you can do other things while on it. STOP! That’s the problem. Not only can they talk to you they can talk to anyone else that comes along and if the line of questioning gets a little too close to home, they can always claim someone’s come into their office or they’ve got another call. Hard to lie about Bob coming into the office when you’re sitting right there.

PR Interference

PR folks have their place. They are definitely useful, but their set objective is to make the source look good and keep them on message. That’s helpful for the source, not so helpful for your article when readers want more than rehearsed sound bites and rep approved lingo. An email interview virtually guarantees someone beyond your source will take a look at the response before you get it back. Sometimes the PR people are the ones responding for the source.

The same thing happens on a phone interview. It’s all too easy for a rep to be on the line and I’ve had at least one incident in which the PR rep kept interrupting the dang interview!

PR reps can be present during in-person interviews as well, but they usually try to be more discrete in person. Usually.

Body Language

The good old fashioned language that speaks volumes without saying a word. I use my body language to relax my subject – taking off glasses, leaning in, nodding, sharing their excitement. When subjects loosen up they give better interviews. Not gotcha interviews – better interviews with real opinions, thorough information and the true personality of a person.

There’s no substitute for an in-person interview. It’s real, it’s engaging and it’s not to be dismissed lightly in favor of more distant interviewing methods. Heck, try to get a Skype interview before a phone or email interview, at least you’ll get facial cues!

Do I sound 100 years old yet? Good.

Pen and paper interviews. Important. Reliable. Still in use even after the invention of the iPhone.

Why?

Because technology doesn’t have your best interest at heart. It doesn’t  care about your deadline. It cares about making sure its processes work correctly and if they don’t it’ll shut down until it, you or a well-paid tech person finds a fix. I hate to get all Matrix-y on you, but it’s true.

Digital recorders, cell phones, even old-school tape recorders have been known to stop working, accidentally delete and otherwise cause massive damage to your well crafted, Pulitzer prize nominee interview. Which is why you take notes. With a pen and paper. Freaky!

The Long and Short.

Back in the days of widespread pen and inking, people took classes in shorthand – that is writing quotes and information in a symbol or code form to be able to keep up with a person’s speaking speed. Some of the chief complaints of non-pen and inkers are learning shorthand isn’t a viable skill, is too time consuming to learn or keeping up with spoken word is too difficult.

Cry me a river. Keeping up with spoken word is too hard? Hard is explaining that you accidentally hit the erase button on your iPhone and lost the entire Dalia Lama interview. Writers don’t have to learn an “official’ shorthand – making one up on your own is just as viable as long as you remember how it works. This shouldn’t be too hard considering most Americans who find themselves texting or shrinking thoughts down to 120 characters use some form of shorthand already. So take a moment and figure it out because you won’t be able to keep up using long hand. Which brings me to…

The Eyes Have It.

It’s tough – taking notes and keeping eye contact with the interview subject – but it’s a skill great writers have worked hard to develop. In a person-to-person interview, maintaining eye contact and engaging the person is key to bringing out the story. It also works to help the person forget about the ‘interview’ and just talk. If you’re scribbling furiously and barely looking up, there’s a disconnect and it’ll be tough to get back on track. This is where shorthand helps. It also helps to practice interviewing in this way. Sure it’s more work, but that’s what happens with skills – you have to work at them ;0).

Transcribing and Storing

The funky thing about handwritten interviews is going over and transcribing your notes. Now this isn’t always a necessity if you are using a digital recording back-up. Storing your notes is completely up to your discretion. I still have notes from important interviews I conducted in college. Normally, I’ll keep notes for at least two years, depending on the subject and keep them all in one place under an organized system. This keeps me from rustling papers for an hour while an editor waits for a quote confirmation or source confirmation.

Pen and paper interviews – a worthy skill and investment in your writing career. Think about it and take action now. Think about how totally cool you’ll look with your spiral bound notebook. Jeepers!

When I conduct an in-person interview with a source I pay careful attention to my attire and match my clothing into the message I want to convey. Of course, a writer wants to be viewed as professional, but depending on the situation, standard business attire may not be the best approach. As a young journalist I found myself dressing to match the corporate attire of those I was interviewing. During that time I tended to interview older professionals and needed them to see me as a journalist and not as some kid with a tape recorder – yes, that was before I got all digital and old…

Now, when interviewing people particularly in more relaxed environment, I find myself using my attire to put people at ease. I have a little trick – I tend to always wear a blazer and glasses with the knowledge that removing one or both gives a non-verbal cue to the interview subject: “I’m getting comfortable and relaxed, you should do the same.”

When choosing appropriate attire, writers should keep in mind not only their interview subject, but the subject matter being discussed and where the interview will be conducted. Interviewing a group of students on the “sexting” craze? You would do well not to look like their parents. Got a tough interview with a lobbyist about a controversial subject? Bust out the power suit. Going to the local nursery to get gardening tips for a organic gardening article? Leave the good shoes at home and be prepared to walk through and observe rows of plants. There will be times you want to stand apart from the environment and other times you will want to blend into scenery. Writers must always remember the interview begins well before you ask the first question. Your initial contact, choice of location and very clothing can make an interview easier and more productive.

Phone Interview Pros

• Quick and convenient. Like its electronic counterpart, phone interviews are easy on both parties. All you need is a phone line and an agreed upon call time and you’re set. No need for anyone to dress up or travel.
• Personality shines through. It can be tough to distinguish tone and meaning through email. Things like sarcasm, hesitations and a “smile in their voice” can enhance an interview and lead to a good productive banter between writer and source.
• Identity assured. You can’t guarantee there isn’t someone listening in, but you can at least be sure you’re talking to the right person. Plus by taping your phone interview you have a standard, credible accounting of the interview.

Phone Interview Cons

• Outside interference. If you have never been rushed off the phone by an source, then you really haven’t lived as a writer. Ok, well, that may be a bit of an exaggeration, but there’s nothing like the ole’ “Someone has come into the office” trick. A phone interview is more likely to get cut short by a handler, other call or a distracted or tired source. There’s nothing like trying to engage a source you can tell is only half listening while they play Farmville on their computer.
• Lack of valuable face time. If you work a regular niche, community, beat, etc., there is no substitute for people knowing who you are when you step into the room. It’s not to inflate your ego, it’s to make sure you get in where you need to to be without lengthy discussion. It’s also so you never pass a source and/or a story simply because you had never seen each other face to face. When I run into a source while out  and about I never fail to gain some nugget of information during our interaction.
• The dead air trick. I love the dead air trick. When I am trying to get someone to answer a question or provide further information, I ask the question and then I *gasp* wait for the response. Pleasantly, patiently and unapologetically I remain silent and eventually people seek to fill that silence with something, anything, including the answers to questions you did and did not ask. Using that trick on the phone could leave you listening to dial tone. People generally assume the call dropped often during the silent treatment resulting in the whole “Are you there?” exchange.

There are pros and cons to both styles and writers should carefully consider their options. Some writers will only conduct email interviews under extreme pressure or use it as a ‘quick quote’ tool. Many publications, specifically newspapers want writers to disclose to their readers that the information provided was through an email interview. To recap, the best interview technique is to interview a source in person, then a phone interview is next on the totem pole and, as a last resort or for quick  information or confirmation use an email interview.

Got a phone or email Pro/Con? Tell us below!

Related Posts

Say What? A Quick Guide to Using Quotes

Ingenious Interviewing Tip – Silence

Email Interview Pros

• Quick and convenient for both the interviewer and source. Email interviews allow writers to shoot off their questions and move on to their next project while giving sources the opportunity to answer at their leisure.
• Easy record keeping. Using email gives you a ready-made record of the interview for future reference.
• Cure for cold feet. Writers are notoriously shy when it comes to interviewing sources whether in person or over the phone. Email helps eliminate that problem.

Email Interview Cons

• Loss of spontaneity. Some of the best moments in an interview come from being in the moment with the source and you lose that through email. When responding to email questions, your source can reread what they wrote and even forward it on to others to make sure they are saying the ‘right’ things.
• Loss of identity. Many writers assume when they email questions to a source the source is the one answering. Often, the questions may be answered by a source, PR person or the source’s boss or assistant. You are never guaranteed the source is the one responding.
• Loss of experience. Using email as the main source of interviews stunts your growth as a writer. While many writers view the interviewing process as a necessary evil, it really does help you grow each time you engage a source.

Emails Interviews vs. Phone Interviews Part 2 to come on Saturday!

Related Articles

How to Lose Control of an Interview

The Art of a Yes/No Question in an Interview

Seducing a Reluctant Source

Who’s asking the questions here? If you find yourself talking more than listening – you are in trouble. It’s okay for an interviewee to be interested in your background or publication, but honestly your life story is not that interesting. It’s a distraction to the reason why you’re there.

Yes, yes, you’re fabulous… Flattery will get you everything, including softball questions from an interviewer. Let’s not let your self-esteem get in the way of the questions – make friends some other time.

Whoa, what was the question again? One minute your subject is talking about social media techniques, the next minute they’re talking about pruning bushes and grandma’s 80th birthday party. Keep your subject on task and on topic.

Freebies are not free. Journalists are trained not to take anything free from a interview subject. Better to die of thirst while interviewing a sub-Saharan crab than to take a drink of free water that could impair your impartial status. Bloggers are often less rigid, but know that those freebies for ‘review’ may come with strings and taint your interview.

No take backs. Subjects that want something off the record should say it before they drop the information. If they try to take something back you need to put them on notice that they missed their opportunity. Sounds harsh, but an interview full of take backs is frustrating and manipulative.

I wanna see first. Interview subjects often try to get the questions ahead of time, for pre-approval or whatever and it’s a sure way to kill an interview. It invites push back before you ever get started and obviously you lose any real spontaneity in the interview.

Let me take a peek. Your notes, your article and your recordings are yours. Unless you want to spend the next several weeks getting changes and tweaks from the subject, never reveal your notes, article, etc. until the piece is published.

There are more out there – share your tips on how to lose control of an interview below!

Often a good interview subject will answer the question and then elaborate on why they feel that way. If they don’t it’s up to you to ask them to give more detail. How you do it is important.

For example, say you’re interviewing a politician who has an opposition to the proposed new budget:

You: “Do you think the new budget will positively impact the city?”

Politician: “No.”

Several follow-up questions could be asked here:

• What would you like to see eliminated/added?
• Do you have a better plan that would work in the current economic environment?
• Are the issues you have with the proposed budget deal breakers or is there room for compromise?

Following up a yes/no question takes a bit of thought, but it allows you both to go deeper into the subject in a variety of ways. A simple question can open the door to so much more.

Introductions

How you approach your target can make or break an interview opportunity.

• Use a wing man. Do you have a friend, associate or a friendly, former source that can introduce you? Work your connections.
• Be different. Go beyond the standard voicemail/email script and show the source you know something about them.
• Stay professional. Show them professional courtesy, take care to use their earned and acknowledged titles. Avoid being too casual and cheesy.
• Name drop. Don’t be obnoxious about it, but if their old research/work buddy suggested you contact them, mention it. Avoid the temptation to lie.
• Conduct advanced research. Well before you ask for the goods, send an email to the source about their previous work. Compliment, ask questions.
• Give advance notice. You wouldn’t ask for a Friday date on Wednesday, so don’t ask for an interview at the last minute if you can avoid it. Recognize their time is valuable.

Combating Resistance

There are times the smoothest, most professional, well-connected introduction won’t break through a source’s defenses.

• Confront the elephant. Simply ask why a source is hesitant or unwilling, they could have been burned before by a media person. Learn the cause, formulate your cure.
• Make your intentions known. If you just need a quickie say so, some are more open to a no-strings contributing quote.
• Do what you say. If you say you’ll email a follow-up on Friday, you better be true to your word. If you want a quickie, don’t come to the interview with luggage and intentions of staying for a while.
• Get on the same page. If you want an open interview, don’t agree to taking things off the table. If they are expecting a chaste after date kiss, don’t whip out the handcuffs at the last minute.
• Display your plume. You don’t have to be a cocky peacock, but mutual respect is a great equalizer. Writing for a well-known publication or having an impressive line of credentials backs up your pitch. Kind of like being an investment banker with a house in the Hamptons.

Got any tips for landing a reluctant source? Who do you think is best source seducer right now? Tell us below. I’d place my bet on Barbara Walters.

Hot on the blog today is Deb’s post on “Eight Reasons Why You’re Not Getting The High Paying Freelance” Jobs of which #5 is about your reputation and James Chartrand’s “Are You Creating Your Own Bad Reputation?” So I thought I’d round it out with how your reputation matters in interviews.

Imagine the worst interview you’ve given. You were late, you hadn’t really researched the person or subject, you fumbled around for a pen, you asked pretty lame questions and followed it up with injecting personal info into the conversation. Scary huh?

Now imagine the interview subject told a bunch of folks about it. What do you think is going to happen when you ask that expert or any of his or her colleagues for another interview? You’ve soiled your reputation. Now it’s a stinky, sad mess.

No one likes a bad interview and most of the time you only hear about bad interview subjects. Well, sitting through a bad interview on the other end is no picnic either. No one likes to answer a stupid question. I remember one article on interviewing talked about how you wouldn’t ask Harrison Ford what his first big break into movies was – duh Star Wars, thought he did get big recognition in American Graffitti. Get the reputation as a bad interviewer and no one will waste their time subjecting themselves to the torture.

To add a little more weight to it for you, what do you think it does to the publication, site, etc. if word gets around about your stinky interviews? That’s right, you can taint an entire publication. So, it’s simple. Do your research, be prepared and gain a reputation for being a great interviewer, a tough interviewer, anything but a lame interviewer!

Have any interview horror stories? What about interviewing “no-no’s?”