How to handle a deadbeat client
So. You wrote a great piece, sent it to your client and he thanked you for a job well done before placing it on his website. You sent in your invoice and waited eagerly for the payment to hit your Paypal or the check to come in the mail and nothing. You emailed your client and received no response. Thirty days pass and still nothing. What do you do?
First check the terms of your contract or agreement. When were you to be paid? Some people pay a certain day of the month, some people pay within thirty days and others pay immediately upon receipt.
If payment is due to you, send another invoice or polite letter to the client informing him that you would like immediate payment or immediate removal of your content. Remember, until you’re paid that content is yours. Take a screenshot of your content on his website. You’ll need this for legal reasons. If he still doesn’t send payment or remove your content, take him to small claims court.
See, this is why so many writers get stiffed; they don’t want to deal with things like small claims court. It’s really not expensive though, and I’ll let you in on a secret. Your client doesn’t want to go to court, small claims or otherwise. As soon as he receives a summons to appear, he’ll most likely send payment. If not, follow through. Deadbeats are counting on your not to take action, don’t give them the satisfaction.
Posted
on
Wednesday, September 26th, 2007 at 2:22 pm under
I can see two things that will get young writers here.
1 - You must have a legitimate address for the individual. When I was just starting out, i didn’t know to look for this. I got some work that was never paid for, and I couldn’t go to court because I had no contact info for the person other than email - lesson learned.
2 - What about people in other countries? Many of my clients are from India and Canada, and I even have one from somewhere in Asia.
Otherwise, great advice!
September 26th, 2007 at 2:28 pmUgh, this is such a difficult situation. I am always bothering people for payment. I’ve even had several “the check is in the mail” but nothing has come. I will look into small claims court.
Thanks,
September 26th, 2007 at 2:28 pmEun Jung
you might also consider the grievance division of the National Writers Union. They’ve been very effective in making deadbeat publishers cough up the dough for their members.
You’ll find the NWU at nwu.org.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:28 pmThis isn’t doable with most projects, but for large ones, particularly with unknown clients, I offer a discount for partial payment upfront.
This helps cash flow.
I also tend to work with fewer clients for long periods of time, so I tend to know payments policy.
But I still have a diversified list of clients. Spreading out work among clients also helps ensure that if one get’s stiffed, it’s not for much. In 16 years, less than 1 percent of invoices have gone unpaid.
Working with established companies tends to help, but not always. Letters of agreements and contracts help ensure that even the established firms do what they promise.
It’s also important to know a company’s payment policy. Your invoice might say Net 30, but the company may not pay until the end of the month. If you just missed the cutoff (invoice arrives on 2nd of the month), then it will be nearly 60 days. Others don’t pay til publication, regardless of your invoice. So these shouldn’t be considered deadbeats.
However, those who pay on acceptance should be avoided.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:55 pmI had this happen twice. A short story of mine was published in a now-defunct Texas magazine. They told me that they’d cut checks once advertising money came in. A week or so later, they made good on their promise.
I also wrote a column for this one lady, for the agreed amount of $10 per column. Sent her an invoice several times, but she either wouldn’t return phone calls or always had an excuse. I finally gave up. For $100, I would’ve been more aggressive, I suppose. Perhaps it’s for the better; I’ve found out from people who have dealt with her that she’s shoddy when it comes to her fact-checking skills as a reporter.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:59 pmDeadbeats drive me nuts. Since the gigs I usually get (most small jobs posted here and on other freelancer sites) don’t have contracts, there is nothing in writing to take to any court. Episodes of being stiffed a few bucks here and a few there add up and make me feel like a fool for accepting the poor-paying assignments in the first place.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:00 pmRecently I asked for 50 percent payment up front from a client and it came through for me. I was surprised. Since most of my clients are new I am learning to so that ahead of time.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:41 pmAny news from the Laray Carr front? Did somebody get paid finally? I’m just wondering because there was a contract involved in that one.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:42 pmSo far, I’ve been lucky. I’ve had 2 great gigs from this site and both turned out to be quite lucrative, though both jobs are now finished. gig#1 had a contract, but not gig#2. There was a bit of delay in my last job with gig#2 because of money problems on their client’s side. I thought that the 1K+ they owe me was a lost cause. Imagine my surprise (and relief!) when I got paid eventually, with humble apologies. This - from someone in another continent, and no contract signed. Lesson learned: there are still some good guys out there and even big jobs don’t necessarily come with contracts. Still, there are also lots of scammers out there so watch out!
I think you have to be a member of the National Writers Union in order to take advantage of their grievance assistance program. Although the dues are not unreasonable, many writers — particularly during the first few years — just don’t have a couple hundred bucks sitting around.
You can see the dues schedule here.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:47 pmMicah –
I’m glad the upfront payment thing worked out well for you. I’m a fan of that approach myself.
By the way, in light of the whole Laray Carr episode, I do recommend being careful about magazine contracts, too. You can request that the contract be changed to say payment is made on publication or six months from acceptance date, whichever comes first. You can also have them write a kill fee into the contract, so that even if they later decline the piece (as with LCP) you still get paid something, at least.
Not all publications will be willing to alter the contract, but then again if they aren’t maybe that should be a sign you shouldn’t work with them.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:51 pmRichard,
Though I too have worked with firms that paid after ad money came in, I did that work (ad sales) on a commission basis. The contract/agreement they have with a writer is with you, not with you and the ad company.
The woman you mentioned reminds me of the first deadbeat I had. Terms weren’t spelled out well enough regarding payments, expectations,etc.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:54 pmyou’re very lucky, argee. I also am “from another continent” and I’ve received one too many “your writing is outstanding but unfortunately we thought it best to work with someone who lives nearer” types of replies (I’m quoting from my most recent let-down).
And there was this magazine who contacted me before but disappeared once I told them I’m not a US resident. Only to have them email me again a month later and THEN disappear again when I reminded them I’m not from the US.
September 26th, 2007 at 4:20 pmMariella, about your disappearing client — you probably wouldn’t want to work with anyone that forgetful, anyway.
September 26th, 2007 at 4:23 pmIn addition to the address, as Nicole points out, if you’re going to serve a summons, you need the corporate name or the registered agent information, even for small claims court. For example, they might do business with you as Johnson Metals, but Alex Johnson Inc. might be DBA (doing business as) Johnson Metals. You’ll have to file against Alex Johnson Inc. and serve his registered agent, not Johnson Metals. (I made up these names, btw.)
If the summons doesn’t get served to the right person, the defendant can file a motion to dismiss. And ultimately, even if you get a judgment, it’s worthless if it’s not in the correct name.
While an individual doesn’t have to be represented by an attorney, you still have to pay to file the complaint. And, if you get a judgment and the person doesn’t pay, you probably will have to hire an attorney to try to collect on the judgment, because it’s a rather complex process.
Last word of caution, before you file a suit, do your homework to find out whether or not they’ve filed for bankruptcy. If they have, you might as well not bother.
I’m a huge advocate of going after someone who steals my work or doesn’t pay me. I’ve done it just for the sake of proving a point. However, I’d say most writers don’t go the small claims court route because it’s time consuming, and even once you have a judgment, many times you still won’t see a dime. If you’re owed a large amount of money, it might be worth it, but for a few hundred bucks or less, it really isn’t.
I do recommend threatening to take someone to court, because often times the threat alone will be enough to get them to pay up. Meanwhile, if they’ve used your work online and haven’t paid you, go after them via their hosting/domain company and have their site shut down for copyright infringement. Then report them anyplace you can, not only to ruin their reputations but also to help others avoid getting ripped off.
September 26th, 2007 at 4:24 pmKatharine>> You are so right. I didn’t think of it that way. LOL. I was very interested in the topic so I took it as a huge loss but this discussion puts things in perspective.
September 26th, 2007 at 4:38 pmDoes anyone have any idea if you have a valid claim like this if the client doesn’t actually use your writing on the site. The short version of my problem is that I did a bunch of writing for a site and they wanted revisions on some of it (which is stipulated in the contract). They paid me for what they used and said they would pay the rest after I’d revised it based on their comments. However, the work with comments for revision. It’s been nine months now and I’ve followed up every month asking for payment; they reply that they’ll pay after I revise based on their comments which they’ll send “next week” and never do. I’ve considered court action but since they never actually published the work anywhere, I don’t know that I really have a valid claim.
Any thoughts?
September 26th, 2007 at 4:50 pmDid your contract say you wouldn’t be paid until they publish it?
September 26th, 2007 at 4:54 pmIt sounds like they are stringing you along. I don’t suppose you have a contract?
From what you said, you’ve already done the main chunk of the work. If there is NOT already a stipulation that payment is on publication, I think you deserve to get paid.
Personally, I would set a deadline. Tell them they cannot penalize you for not finishing the project when they are not giving you the materials needed to do so. Let them know that you have completed the work as initially assigned, and that payment is due by a certain date (in 2 weeks? a month?) regardless of whether they have sent you their comments. Send an invoice too.
I’d also add in there what you will do if you aren’t paid by said deadline. Contact Angela Hoy at Writers Weekly, file reports, take them to small claims court, whatever. And if they don’t pay on time, follow through — sometimes clients pay up when they realize you weren’t just making empty threats.
September 26th, 2007 at 5:03 pmThough I hate “we don’t pay until we publish,” I know its modus operandi for many legitimate, large magazine publishers. Most use contracts with that language in it, but there are some that don’t.
It may be too late now, but it’s always best to know payment policy before starting to work on a project.
September 26th, 2007 at 5:46 pmoops, should be it’s in post above.
September 26th, 2007 at 5:54 pmregarding Laray Carr…
September 26th, 2007 at 5:57 pmturns out the whole thing WAS a shady deal. yesterday and Monday a PDF letter “written” by a Dean Person (the name on the contract, on the other hand, was David Person…) and distributed by the now-infamous Hope Hunt. The letter was, as far as I can tell, sent to all the writers involved in LCP, and said unfortunately LCP decided not to publish ANY of the articles submitted to them!
thankfully I’m only out $150, but I know many writers are out much, much more.
what kind of legal action, if any, can be taken against them? according to the contract, they only “pay” upon publication, but they also told us our articles were accepted, would be published, and that we would be getting paid! in fact, were were “hired” as freelance writers and asked to complete assignments and specific article titles.
Check out the comments on the Aug. 24th thread. All the stuff information on LCP and what can be done, if anything is on that thread.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:07 pmAll the information on LCP I mean.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:08 pmCarla,
As Katharine mentioned earlier, also contact Angela Hoy.
When I start with new clients, I try to limit my work until I see how good they are at paying.
That’s no guarantee, though, but it does limit potential losses.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:24 pmJust about all of my work is done for a few local/regional publications, and an ad agency in my area. All of them have varying payment schedules, and they always come through.
A few years back, though, I did some work a technical association. When I submitted the bill, I was told “we’ll pay you as soon as more members sing up.” Weeks dragged into months, and I got the same excuse.
Fortunately, I do some PR consulting work for a law firm in town, and one of the attorneys drafted a quick letter to the deadbeat client.
I got paid in full in a matter of days.
The moral of the story: It never hurts to have a friendly relationship with a lawyer or two.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:26 pmcarla,
I am one of the ones out of money to on the Laray Carr mess. I am only out $75, but still want to do something about it. I would think if we all got together we could at least make some noise. I don’t know that we have any leg to stand on legally as the contract says they will pay upon publication. Since they didn’t publish anything, they would owe us nothing. This is just so wrong. You experienced writers, smelled a skunk, however, it was too late for most of us. I am thankful I only wrote 2 articles.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:51 pmHi Deb,
I have a funny (and not so funny) story to share. I have a deadbeat client who I took to small claims court for non-payment. We reside in different states, and had to find out IN COURT that this deadbeat refused the summons that was delivered to her, claiming she was not the person whose name was on the summons! And on top of it, I can’t even have her served in person by a magistrate because she keeps moving! Her address, according to her new web site is a post office box!
For the long, ugly, drawn out story, click here:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/224/ripoff0224789.htm
or here:
http://forums.writersweekly.com/viewtopic.php?t=7113
The bottom line is, she never had any intentions of paying me.
That’s ok. Karma will pay her back BIG TIME!
September 26th, 2007 at 8:02 pmCarla, you’re not alone. I’m also out $75 thanks to Laray Carr. I should’ve trusted my instincts on that one - when the pay they were advertising was different from what the “contract” stipulated. Oh well, could’ve been much worse. $75 was a small price to pay for such a huge lesson learned.
September 26th, 2007 at 9:01 pmTo paraphrase a current business mantra, make sure prospects pass the “smell” tests. If the client appears to be suspect (”smells”), it probably is.
September 27th, 2007 at 6:15 amI forgot, I read this article about How to Collect Payment from Deadbeats sometime ago in Writers Weekly:
http://www.writersweekly.com/this_weeks_article/004269_09192007.html
September 27th, 2007 at 6:26 amJoy, that was horrible (I read through your links). It really irks me when these types of people resort to recrimination when in fact their acts stink to high heavens.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:32 amWhat works well for me (twice in the past anyway), I look up the client’s website and find out who they use as a web host. In many cases, in the fine print they signed when taking on their website it says you cannot post plagiarized material or they will shut down your site. I use bluehost for my website and it was in the contract. Few people ever bother to read all the fine print.
I’ve contacted the web host twice now and though in one case I didn’t get my money because the woman hand purchased the articles from one of the sites like Constant Content, I did get the byline at least, and she went to Constant Content to register a complaint with them. The other time, the person was very willing to pay up in order to get his site back up and running.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:42 amDo what you can to minimize your lossses.
I started asking for 50% “good faith” deposit from clients. I don’t start working until I receive the deposit. I don’t have the time or patience to sit around wondering if I’m going to get paid.
An alternative is to do the work and receive payment in increments. So, you turn in 25% of the work and get paid 25% of the total. You do another 25% of the work and get paid another 25% of the total, until the work and payment is complete. This is a very good approach for larger projects.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:44 amlatoya, I also prefer getting paid in increments. I presently have the same arrangement with a client and it’s worked very well for us. We’re both happy with it because I get payment regularly and he gets his a content little at a time and hence could thoroughly check it if he wants to.
September 27th, 2007 at 10:23 amMariella, thanks for your kind words. It was a real bite in the behind. I’m much more cautious now; for instance, I research new clients to make sure they’re reputable and pay their bills. On another note, I’m sorry you’re having trouble with prospects. These people need to know that we live in a virtual world. It does work!
September 27th, 2007 at 10:41 amJoy>> I also do background checks now too. So I must admit, it came as a real blow when once a client without bad track record ripped me off. I guess we just have to be cautious all the time even if the client or employer appears to be reputable.
Thanks for YOUR kind words! Your “It does work!” comment really touched me. ♥
September 27th, 2007 at 11:07 amJoy,
The trouble you’ve gone through and not being able to find her to serve her is the sort of thing I’m talking about. In theory, it sounds easy to take someone to court, but it’s usually a lot more difficult than it first seems. I do hope you’ll be able to do some kind of public records search and find her, especially if your case hasn’t been dismissed yet.
Thanks for posting the link to your story. I don’t frequent Writers Weekly as much as I probably should, so I hadn’t read about this one. Since I’m in the Chicago area, I always like to be aware of folks like this who operate close to home. The sad thing to me is that she was operating a non-profit for helping women adjust after difficult times? Wow.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:06 pmAmy, it’s unbelievable how she snowed me in to do all this work for her… which she absolutely loved! Live and learn. Just keep a watch for this woman… she’s a piece of work. I’ve given her every opportunity to do the right thing. There’s a saying… “There are those who never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.” This deadbeat fits the bill.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:45 pmJoy,
I’m usually pretty instinctive, especially when it comes to gut reactions about people. But I can honestly say I probably would have had the same thing happen to me in your case. It’s really too bad.
I am glad Deb’s blog is here, and sites like Writers Weekly and Writer Beware, so people can read about this kind of stuff and learn what to do to protect themselves.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:55 pmFor new clients, it may help to ask for references. Most of them want to see your portfolio and/or a writing sample. You need to protect your interests by acting as they do.
You should also write in your proposal or contract that “Copyright remains with the author until payment is received in full.”
September 27th, 2007 at 2:30 pmFor all of you who have been rejected by Laray Carr you are in a very powerful position. Write about your situation on your blog or go to there blogs and leave comments. I sent all the information to a Terrell Texas newspaper as well as one in Dallas. Who knows, if they find the information intriging they might follow up on it and maybe even write a news piece about the whole mess. The more negative publicity we as writers can create the more trouble Laray Carr will have scamming anyone else and if they do happen to be legit the more writers that are aware of their tactics the harder time they’re going to have finding someone to write for them. MAKE THEM SQUIRM
September 27th, 2007 at 5:21 pm“Copyright remains with the author until payment is received in full.”
I love that. I may start using it with new clients. I have one right now I’m trying to get to “remember” to pay. Thanks!
September 27th, 2007 at 5:59 pmI might have a piece of good news regarding the Laray Carr fiasco. I sent all the info yesterday to a Terrell and Dallas newspaper and I recieved a reply from the Terrell newspaper this morning.
I found out about Quincy Laray Carr on Wednesday and I’m working on it. Police haven’t done anything with this case, yet. They haven’t been able to find him.
Tereasa
There may be justice after all
September 28th, 2007 at 9:09 amGreat news! Keep us posted! I hope they find him.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:14 amAnother encouraging reply and one that will hopefully keep LCP in the negative news wise on the web
Thanks for the tip. Will do. WR
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
—–Original Message—–
From: “Kathy Neilsen”
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 13:40:36
To:
Subject:
This letter was sent to dozens of writers after writers raised concerns over legitimacy of company Laray Carr. Google it if your interested on the sordid details
September 28th, 2007 at 9:25 amI got this from another blog. Someove voicing concerns that LCP may be operating under another name over at elance. The name of the service buyer is cmcgroup and they have several ads requesting editors, designers and even a pro-bono attorney. This is a snippit of the ad regarding payment
- I will not use a third part escrow system.
- Please do not ask for advance payments or miles stones; please do not ask for some payment after you complete one, two, or three sites. I have been there and done that and was ripped off. Sorry just like bad buyers there are providers who lie about their skills, work, and take peoples money. I lose money you loose work. I rather have my $2000 in my hand.
- You must meet the first deadline. At that deadline all sources files must be delivered on time. You must meet the second deadline at that point all sources files must be delivered. I will require our people to test your work before payment and we will ask you to fix any problems before we pay out.
- You will be paid in full through Pay Pal, or Bank Transfer. No Western Union or Money Gram.
- Must provide samples of your work and do a mock up to show design quality.
I have no idea if this company is LCP in disguise but if it is, definitely beware and even if it isn’t the payment terms are very rough and they give themselves many outs
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:40 pmIt looks like they are also advertising on scriptlance.com under the username liveweb:
http://www.scriptlance.com/projects/1191298262.shtml
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:52 pmI don’t unerstand. Why do we think this is LCP?
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:10 pmSee the last remark as well as a few others here
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:16 pmhttp://accrispin.blogspot.com/2007/09/victoria-strauss-laray-carr.html
Deb,
An anonymous commenter on my blog said that s/he was an editor for LCP, and that they were all sent letters end of last week regarding a “change of direction.” (By the way, she reports that NONE of the editors have been paid yet. Apparently Hope hasn’t, either.)
This commenter says that s/he recognized the ads on elance because they match LCP’s new plans.
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:25 pmI’ve been in contact for a while with one of the editors and was told somewhat the same story. This editor however chose to leave, not knowing if pay will ever be received.
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:31 pm