Yesterday, I showed you my humble little work space. In the discussion that followed, “Writing for Dollars” left the following comment:
“A topic we discuss over and over again is how we are sick of being offered jobs for pennies and how we want to be taken seriously.
“Then we start a thread with people saying they work on a TV tray or at the kitchen table, on the sofa, etc. This does not sound professional at all and if potential clients want to hire a professional, even though you and I know we can write anywhere and under just about any circumstances, it does not appear very professional to be working in anything other than an office in your home, set up specifically for that.
“So, my feeling is that if we are requesting clients to take us seriously and pay us as professionals, we need to at least keep up that image and work in what is perceived to be a professional environment.
“Just as in advertising…it’s always the “packaging” that sells. You must “package” yourself as a professional if you are to be treated and paid as one.”
I so beg to differ…
I started working from home five years ago in a corner of my bedroom. That didn’t work out too well, and I began writing from a laptop on my kitchen table and then a corner of the dining room. While I finally scored an office a few weeks ago, I still believe writers can work anywhere - and still be considered professionals.
My laptop travels to the playground, the back deck, the library, the coffee shop and more. In fact, my laptop will be traveling with me to its first soccer game this weekend. How does this make me unprofessional? I feel it makes me more professional as it allows me the flexibility to complete my tasks despite my duties as a wife, homemaker and soccer mom.
When I worked in the city, I used the hour long commute each day to and from
I have a very successful freelance writing/blogging business. It is such that I don’t need to go back to an office job, and my husband and I are able to pay the bills, work on our home and save money at the same time.
I’m rather offended by the statement that we’re not professionals without a dedicated office. B.S. wages for writers have nothing to with where I work or what I wear. They have to do with all of the writers driving down the rates by accepting these wages. Moreover, with no motivation outside of the $2.50 many are being paid for an 800 worder, many of the writers accepting these jobs tend to flake, or hand in hastily written, poorly researched work. Thus, it’s unprofessional writers making us look bad, not TV trays.
In five years I’ve had hundreds of clients. In that time, not one has asked me where I worked. If it did come up, it was never an issue. I don’t need hardwood floors and a big old globe to convince people I’m a professional. My work, and my work ethic, speaks for itself.
September 12th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Not having a home office doesn’t make a person less professional. I know a computer analyst who works from home. He makes a great income, and admits to spending more than half the day in his pajamas or shorts. Because he has four kids, spare office space isn’t available in his home. Like you, he also works from the bedroom or dining room. His clients know that he works from home, as long as he gets the job done, they could care less about him having a designated office space.
September 12th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Yikes. Like I said yesterday, I have an office BUT I don’t think it makes me more professional (I know Deb makes more freelance money than I do, that’s for sure, lol). I feel very lucky to have an office. I also said I like to sit with my laptop & write on the sofa (gasp!) at night, when my family’s home; it makes me feel less isolated. I agree with you, Deb. It’s not the outfit; it’s the writers who accept $2.50/article who are driving the profession into the ground.
Besides, I’ve met so many people who tell me they’d love to be a writer because then they could work in their pajamas if they wanted.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
You go, Deb! You said it SO much more eloquently than my comment in response to “Writing for Dollars.”
I agree with you that if anything, it makes us more professional that we have the flexibility to work anywhere, anytime. In fact, I am quite sure many of my clients rather like being able to get a hold of me in the evening, when the sort who has a dedicated office has probably checked out for the day.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
I don’t thing where we work carries as much weight as how we work — well said, Deb. It is hard knowing when too low is too low to work for — when you need to make money writing and you don’t have a stack of clips. I try to make up for this by being professional in my communication, following directions, and turning in articles before they are due. I don’t think if I was sitting in spiderman underwear while I wrote it would keep me from getting paid.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Whether you work in a 3-piece suit or in the nude, in an executive office suite or on the patio, has no bearing on your level of professionalism. That’s all about the work you do and the results you get.
kk
September 12th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
not that I have spiderman underwear.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
clap clap clap… couldn’t agree more, Deb.
And Kristen King, thanks for the Wednesday afternoon chuckle with that, uh, mental image.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
I think having a separate workspace is important if you need to be alone while working. But it really has nothing to do with professionalism. I work my butt off to be able to write decent pieces and if any of my clients who were previously pleased with my work ever complains that I work in one corner of my bedroom, then I don’t think it’s worth having a long-term business relationship with them.
Besides, they don’t even SEE where I work. I don’t remember setting up a cybercam for a private client-freelance writer peepshow.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Deb - You are so very right! My work is professional no matter where I write from or what I am dressed in. It is my personal ethics to see that my work is researched and done correctly.
On the other hand, I find those who stalk us for “samples” that could end up God knows where & dangling that whopping $2.50 for an 800 word piece to be the ones in question.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Ditto to what Mariella says.
I think a lot of it depends on the person and the type of work one is doing. I do a lot of magazine writing, meaning plenty of interviews. So a quite, separate space is required. Also, I have materials that shouldn’t be disturbed. Having a separate office helps insure this.
While I also have a laptop and have worked remotely — covered two conferences in diffent cities at the same time last week via streaming video — it is nowhere near as efficient as being in the office.
However, I’m not out much, so I use an older laptop. If it was my main computer and therefore more powerful, some remote work would be nearly as efficient. But even coffee shops can get noisy, so interviews don’t always work well there.
While I’ll agree with others who say professionalism depends on the work one does, I will point out that for the IRS, you do need to have a separate work space for certain tax deductions.
Additionally, I find it helps to have a separate space for a clear separation (mentally at least) of work and “the rest of my life (though it’s short). Work does not go into the rest of the house. When I’m not in my office, I’m not working. All papers, bookwork and other information stays here.
I think that most will find if they can set up a separate area, they will find they are more effiicient at what they’re doing, which will enable them to earn more and/or play more (because work gets done in less time).
September 12th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
You know, I think it is pertinent that many of us went freelance because of the flexibility and absence of micromanaging that the job description offered. If I had a client breathing down my neck about what my workspace looked like, I would probably start twitching and having flashbacks to my old job. And then I would get rid of said client.
After all, they are just that — clients. They are working with us precisely so that they don’t have to worry HR issues. As far as I’m concerned, asking about my workspace is the equivalent of timing my lunch breaks: None of Their Business.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
If you are going to have a face-to-face meeting with clients, it’s best to have a home office where they can sit down with you. Otherwise, how would they know?
September 12th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
I can’t imagine a client asking me about my workspace. I do have a dedicated home office, but mostly because I just have the extra space. One day it may become a combo office/guest room (if we have kids before we buy a bigger home). I have worked in other places, though, including hotel rooms, beach houses, coffee shops and the car. As others have said, working from a TV tray has nothing to do with the piddly $2.50/article crap-o-la that’s going around out there… in fact, that kind of implication isn’t even logical.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
The notion that we must all work in a sterile, office-environment is so ingrained in people’s modern work ethic. How about when your office co-worker’s come in hungover, or talk on the phone loudly and make it difficult to concentrate? It’s often much harder to control your environment when you are in an shared office, than when you are at home. Thus why remote working is becoming so popular. Employers are becoming more and more aware of the fact that employees don’t always need to be sitting in the office, in their suits, but work just as well at home in their jeans.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Isn’t one of the great perks of freelancing the freedom to write where we want, when we want?
September 12th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Deb –
Thank you for what you said about unprofessional writers accepting chump change (or bidding to do a project for chump change) as the reason for writers not being taken seriously. I couldn’t agree more.
The scabs come along and undercut everyone else for a project and then do a shoddy job and, all of a sudden, those of us that are serious about what we do are given a bad rap.
I think that statement is long overdue.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Another case of the WordPress comment bug.
Phil –
You are right that in order to take the home office deduction on your taxes, you need a dedicated home office. However, I highly recommend writers avoid that deduction, unless you have already discussed it with a tax lawyer or accountant.
The IRS is a real stickler: The rules say you not only have to use the office space regularly and exclusively for business, but also you need to use it to meet with clients on a regular basis.
Besides, if you own your house you will end up having to repay some of those deductions when you sell it.
To make matters worse, the home office deduction is a “red flag” to the IRS, and can trigger an audit.
Personally, it’s not worth it to me. I’d rather pay more taxes and be able to work wherever I d#mn well please.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Katharine,
You’re right about the caveats, though “to meet with clients regularly” won’t hold up if IRS questions it.
I don’t take the deduction either, but a lot of people starting out in business see the deduction as a perk without understanding the rules behind it, so I htought it was worth mentioning.
Again, I find a separate office space is important for piece of mind and helps me be a lot more efficient.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
I’m not sure you all received the message from “Writing for Dollars.” E-mail, you see, it disguises tone - perhaps the person meant it in this way: if you want to make a million bucks, dress, act, think and believe you are already worth that much, and the money will come. It’s a motivational tool. Give yourself the image of a seasoned professional (in public and believe it to yourself also) and it won’t be long before you are one, or if you already are seasoned and doing well, money will come better. It’s a matter of karma, spiritually bringing in more work, calling it to you by giving off the right energy and putting the right energy around you at all times. Positive energy in a nice professional looking office does make you more professional. Maybe it’s not necessary, heck many of just don’t have the resources for one, but my goal is to one day have the money to create one, because it makes me feel so good and does convey the air of professionalism. But maybe he didn’t mean it quite so critically - if he did, well, oh well, it’s a little extreme, and we don’t agree so relax people. But it’s a nice thing to have, a beautifully clean, professional, perhaps feng-shui-oriented, (I do it, works wonders for me! I reccommend “feng shui your life” by Jayme Barrett, shameless plug for a book I’ve recently enjoyed, which added greatly to my feng shui and design library!) office which helps bring about the right kind of feelings and professional offers, especially for newbies.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Roxie,
A separate office, yes.
Clean? My first grade teacher told my mother once. “Your son is doing well, but his desk is very messy. I had another student like that once. He became a reporter.”
Journalism is still the basis of most of my writing. And my desk now makes my first grade desk look clean.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
I meant a nice home office OR outside one, people, btw, bc my goal to one day create one involves some nice brocade home/west elm furniture and desk accesories and wall decor, perhaps - in my own house, lol. I TOO love the flexibility.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Roxie –
I know what you are saying. What I — and, I think, a few others — are saying is that you don’t have to have a professional office to prove that you take yourself seriously. I think my work is worth a million bucks no matter where it is performed. Moreover, my packaging — website, resume, cover letters, queries, business cards, etc. — say I am a professional.
My point is simply that while having a nice office may make you feel pretty special, it takes more than positive energy or feng shui to make you successful. Plenty of writers know how to achieve success from a TV tray, and I don’t think anybody ought to be looking down their noses at that.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Phil –
I agree, many writers are too quick to take the home office deduction. I’m sure more than a few have ended up in a pickle because they didn’t read the rules first.
That’s a great quote from your first grade teacher, by the way. That ought to be in your baby book or something.
When I was in school, my teachers told my parents, “We can’t get the other kids to read more. We can’t get Kathy to stop reading!“
September 12th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
I couldn’t agree more! While I’d love, actually, to have the luxury of a well-appointed home office, my current corner of the kitchen (it does have an actual computer desk, and a window!) is serving me just fine. I don’t think my clients would be offended, since they seem quite happy with my work. And I, too, fully support the notion that those penny-paying jobs undermine the work of writing professionals like ourselves, and make the market a tough one for those of us who actually need to make a living.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
What’s the difference in working on a TV cart in the living room and working in an office where you can’t see the beautiful deak for all the crap that lays on top of it and littered with empty cups, wadded paper, etc?
I, too, work from home and I do have an office… in fact, I just treated the kids and I to new desks, that match… because I’ve never had that before… however, have laptop, will travel. Some days I can’t write sitting at my desk. So I move to the front porch; or to the coffee shop; or to the local park.
I also work with my children at home. While I don’t broadcast this to my client, if they ask, I will tell them.
Of course, my real job is a telecommuting job and they know my kids are here and that’s okay. It was part of the deal when I was hired. I think with the influx of working from home, and such, people know.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
“Have laptop, will travel.” Heather, I love that! If I provide a link to your blog, do you mind if I borrow that phrase for a post title on my own blog?
September 12th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
I agree with Deb. I work full-time in a real estate office and some of the agents there are millionaires. However, you would never know so by looking at their offices!
September 12th, 2007 at 5:37 pm
I opted not to take the home office deduction; I have a space I could use, but it means tying my writing to that location, which, compared to the total square footage of my home, is quite small. I had my own daycare business for a while and have always done our taxes, so I know that deducting office expenses for about ten square feet is a bad tradeoff for me. It might not feel that way to someone else (who likes basements…I have mild SAD).
Even if you don’t take the home office deduction, you can usually depreciate or expense things like laptops if you keep a written log of time used…and the business use is more than 50%. The IRS loves written logs. (Mileage, query tracking, you name it.) So, even if you don’t deduct office space expenses, there may be a way to write off your laptop. (Just don’t let your kids watch endless DVDs on it because that counts as personal time, LOL!)
For the record, my ideal home office would be directly under a natural-light skylight…my husband has designed one for me, but we haven’t had time (or money) to explore how much an addition would cost. So…back to writing!
September 12th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
If, and that’s a big if, my house was big enough for a home office, I’m sure I’d have one. I don’t bother with deductions, I do too many things on my laptop to keep track of personal vs. work time and my accountant told me not to even try.
So I’m happy working from the recliner in my living room. I get the job done and to the companies out there that have hired me that’s all that matters.
And you know, my best friend works for Morgan Stanley. She works from home quite frequently, wearing nothing more than her pajamas and not bothering to shower. Her boss doesn’t seem to mind at all, again because she gets the work done.
September 12th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
I don’t think it matters so much what or where your workspace is, so long as you think of it and project it in personal terms.
Right now my studio is in what could have been another bedroom o a den. It’s laid out like a proessional workspace. But when I first got married 15 years ago and we first lived in the house my wife was selling, I had a desk up against a wall on one end of the living room. I called that my “studio” when I spoke to clients and prospective clients.
Seems to me we need to think of ourselves, for real, as professionals and then project that. It all goes to sell ourselves as capable of performing the services we’re shopping around.
Stephen Tiano, Book Designer, Page Compositor & Layout Artist
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September 12th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
Working from home has advantages and disadvantages as we all know. Some will always view us as stay home and watch the soaps all day while others know that it can be more productive to hire a freelancer. As long as you are organized, keep the bills paid and meet all deadlines go with what works. There is a ton of work out in the world for you.
September 12th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
I used my laptop as a deduction when I bought it in 2005. As it turns out, my favorite hobby is my job, too, so virtually everything I do online is writing-related.
About a year ago, I started keeping a written log of time I spend on the computer and what it’s for. I declared my laptop as 75% business use, but in retrospect I probably could have done more like 90%.
September 12th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
I also agree with Deb. I don’t have a laptop like some of you but the freedom of working from home stands on it own.
Being here when my son gets home from school is a huge perk in my book. During the summer it means tons because of him being out of school.
I don’t think I’m a regular 9-5 kind of gal. My pc is my living room until business allows for me to put it somewhere else.
September 12th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
I’ve written award-winning stories sitting by the pool with my laptop. It doesn’t matter WHERE you work as long as you are relaxed, able to concentrate, have access to the necessary technology and resources and are able to devote yourself fully to your work. I can produce better writing in one hour by the pool than I ever did in a day in the office.
The whole idea of freelancing is that you’re FREE to work where and when you want. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise!
September 13th, 2007 at 12:06 am
When I was in the corporate world, I worked with many so-called professionals who had stuffed toyes and various pix of celebrities tacked up in their rather dishevelled cubicles. How are they more professional?
September 13th, 2007 at 12:20 am
Regarding claiming or not claiming one’s workspace as a tax deduction: I’m not sure but perhaps it is different here in Canada.
According to the CCRA, ‘You can deduct expenses for the business use of a work space in your home, as long as you meet one of these conditions: it is your principal place of business; or you use the space only to earn your business income, and you use it on a regular and ongoing basis to meet your clients, customers, or patients.’
If I don’t (or can’t) meet my clients on a regular basis(my major client are not local) yet most of my work, which is writing/editing, is done in my office, I believe the first applies. My accountant believes this, also. Of course, I am conservative whenever I claim home expenses, but my extra room is one of my expenses. It seems silly not to claim an expense. It also helps validate the legitimacy of my business, I think. I’ve been doing so for five years, and none of the well-experienced accountants I have dealth with has told me otherwise.
Has anyone had difficulty with this before?
September 13th, 2007 at 1:06 am
Katharine>> Thanks for reminding me! I almost forgot putting expenses for computer maintenance on tax deductions. Not to mention, the cost for the new laptop I’m buying this November. I was so caught up on tax deductions for my being head of the family and sending my sister to college. I guess this means there won’t be much left of taxes to be paid this year…
September 13th, 2007 at 1:21 am
By the way, please excuse the typos I made above: WordPress was ever so finicky tonight, and I stopped checking my spelling after the 3rd rewrite of the above posts.
September 13th, 2007 at 2:58 am
I write mostly about food and fashion, and “POV Italy” impacts most of it. I write from a tiny bay window in a 15th century Italian kitchen.
If that sounds unprofessional, tough. For me it works to have the computer, the camera and the kitchen two steps apart. My fashion column is dependent on being in Italy, my cookbook is coming from the cooker 4 meters from here and the testers eat it on a table right behind me.
I’d go toe to toe with the IRS or anyone about the professionalism aspect.
When apartments sell for euro 900 per square foot, compactness counts.
September 13th, 2007 at 3:06 am
@Phil
Actually, that’s my problem right now. I’m not yet at the point in my career wherein I could afford having a separate office constructed and as I mentioned before, I share a room with my sister. It’s been very difficult conducting interviews, if at all, because I can’t just kick her out of the room when I want to.
That’s why my mother and I have been saving up to have a bachelorette’s pad built for me early next year. Hopefully, all would go well.
September 13th, 2007 at 6:36 am
Another quick note about the IRS (with the caveat that I’m not giving legal advice and “you should check with a professional”), though office in home is an audit trigger, as Katharine mentions, don’t neglect to take deductions that make sense — again, for some office-in-home doesn’t due to recapture provisions.
A lot of deductions fall in a grey area (percentage of business use of laptop).
Don’t hurt yourself by being too conservative, just don’t ignore the law. This is the advice I was given from a high school classmate of mine who retired 10 years ago (CPA, MBA, CFP, knows stocks).
September 13th, 2007 at 8:06 am
WOW! I didn’t know my comment would become the topic of an entirely new thread. I also didn’t mean to create such a stir.
Let me clarify my statements from the other day.
My intent was that we can work anywhere we want and still do quality work. You know that and I know that. But what I was trying to say was that some clients, especially the old suit and tie fortune 500 or fortune 100 set that I often work with are “old school”.
They don’t need to know that we are working at the kitchen table, bouncing the baby on one knee while working on their piece. I know it happens and I know quality work does come out of situations like that, but that is not my point.
My point is that we don’t need to show photos and tell the world on the internet that we work like that.
Some clients might think that its unprofessional. Some clients might think that this is our “side job” or “hobby”, some clients may think that we don’t really have the time to do their projects well.
As I said, its all in the “image”. If you are asking for a professional rate, you must at least present yourself as a professional.
If I was a client, ready to fork over a few thousand dollars for a marketing brochure, I sure wouldn’t want to think my work was being done between diaper changes. Sure, that’s not a big deal to many of us….but it just might be to the client.
My only point was that what might be just a “comfortable” working environment to you, might be perceived as very unprofessional to many clients so we don’t need to advertise it all over the net.
Deb, how come you didn’t post a picture of where you work until you had an “office”? Could it be that maybe you have thought about some of these same things?
To sum it all up. No, you don’t need an office to create great wrting. Yes, I know we can balance 10 things at once and do it well, but….your client wants to think he is your number one priority and that you are giving him 100% of your attention.
Image sells…its a known fact. If you don’t protray the correct one, you will not be taken seriously.
September 13th, 2007 at 8:12 am
Writing for Dollars - For your information, I did blog about working from the kitchen table, and I posted a photo:
http://www.workfromhomemomma.com/2007/05/_the_other_day_i.html
Moreover, I’ve been interviewed many times about working from my kitchen table and if anything it’s brought me more business. I have nothing to hide and feel professionalism is all in the eye of the beholder.
September 13th, 2007 at 8:15 am
P.S. If Performancing or ProBlogger asked to see where we worked a few months ago, before I moved to my office, I would have been more than happy to share.
September 13th, 2007 at 8:24 am
…I have a little globe pencil sharpener…!
Deb discussed where she worked earlier this year on this page, because I remember posting where I work, and it wasn’t at a desk…
September 13th, 2007 at 8:26 am
I do not beieve that an office makes the person, rather the person makes person. If you can work on a couch (me)in my robe (sometimes) does not reflect on my work. I knew an excutive from a very profitable and well known company up there in Minnesota that worked at home two days a week and wore what he wanted and sat on a chair in the living room conducting business.
Clients do not want to know where your office is or if you have clothes on, they want quality work. If a client asks you what you are wearing today or where you are in the home, I would start to worry about the client.
Clothes and office decor do not make the home worker, the home worker makes the home worker. I write just fine without being in my office.
Yes I do have an office upstairs, but moved my laptop and desktop to the living room, because my new puppy likes to look out the windows. By the way, I write just fine with the TV on as well. My little set up actually makes me happy and I write up a storm. If I was upstairs, I would be worried about where the puppy is now and what is he barking at now.
Being downstairs in the living room benefits everyone in my house and I have never had an article rejected or missed a deadline. You have to be happy in your environment in order to be productive.
September 13th, 2007 at 8:35 am
OK, I give up! I do wish you would all realize the point I am trying to make instead of jumping on one or two sentences that get to you.
I guess I have been in the advertising and entertainment business too long. In this business, its all in the “PERCEIVED” image…not the reality.
I was only trying to state, plain and simple, that if you want those $175.00 an hour jobs (which definitely are out there), you are competing with major companies for them and you must at least project that you are in the same league as your competitors.
I know you think this blog is a friendly chat among readers of Deb’s job site, but, in fact, a potential client could be reading this at this very moment. A client who, right or wrong, thinks that he will get a better product from a “professional”.
I was not putting down anyone who works in any environment other than an office. I was only trying to let you know, that with the higher paying clients, image is important.
Is there no one out there reading this that gets a grasp on what I am trying to say?
September 13th, 2007 at 8:44 am
Writing for Dollars -
I think we can understand what you’re saying more than you think. You’re saying that by posting our kids stories or tales of working from the kitchen table, we’re scaring away potential clients who might feel our methods of working are unprofessional. You’re saying we’re portraying the wrong image - that a potential client should see us as a suited, officed, focused only on the job freelance writer. I get what you’re saying, many of us do. We just disagree.
I think in this day and age, it’s assumed by many clients that work at homes have kids in the house and may work in an area of the home that may not be seen as a conventional office.
I do get your point, Writing for Dollars. I make more than I did from my kitchen table, and the world knowing it, than I did at my office job. I understand what you’re saying. I just disagree.
September 13th, 2007 at 8:55 am
I’m actually going to defend Writing for Dollars to some extent.
If I was to advise someone how to set up a business, I would recommend having a separate work space. And one does have to project professionalism. But that can be done in a number of different ways.
If you don’t meet clients in your “office,” be it in the home or wherever, it doesn’t matter how it looks.
And you can be totally virtual. I’ve written several articles on the growth of the mobile workforce. There are professionals who work offsite all of the time or most of it.
A professional image is projected by how you deal with clients, contacts, etc. That means answering the phone in a professional manner, treating your business like a business (rather than a hobby that you do when you get around to it), meeting deadlines, etc.
I work in sweats here, but I wear a suit when I go to conferences or in those rare instances I meet with a client or prospect.
The importance of the projection of professionalism can’t be overstated. But it’s not necessarily one’s office that conveys that.
Even if you meet with clients, you can still meet with them at their locations to avoid any issues of your office. Tons of professionals, including CPAs, mortgage brokers, loan officers and real estate agents do just that. They might have an office, but that’s not where they conduct most of their business.
September 13th, 2007 at 8:57 am
Thank you Deb. Yes, you do get it and you are entitled to your opinion as am I.
I never meant to offend anyone, I was only offering a side of the industry in which I work and have for 20 years.
Many of you work with online clients and yes, they don’t care about where you are writing, since many of them are writing from the same perspective. This is an entirely different client from the ones I work with and each has different needs.
I guess it all boils down to whatever works for each of us. And yes, I do agree that its much more important that we stress to writers not to take the insultingly low pay offers, than where you work.
OK, I will now go off in the corner and lick my wounds.
But seriously, I’m sorry if I offended anyone, I only wanted to show the other side of the coin, so to speak.
September 13th, 2007 at 9:06 am
Phil,
Thanks for your input. You stated the point I was trying to make. It isn’t just the “office” but the entire “package” of how you present yourself.
September 13th, 2007 at 9:26 am
I think there’s nothing else to be said. Just like what Deb is saying, we all do understand what you’re trying to imply, we just don’t agree.
It’s VERY easy lying over the internet. I can tell a client I wear a three piece suit to work in a home office but then I’d want to cut off my own fingers for lying. That is, unless of course, the client lives nearby and would like to meet in person.
Thing is, if potential clients don’t see our workplace, it can’t be their basis of gauging our professionalism. It’s not our offices — it’s the way we handle transactions. The way we write and format our query letters and resume. The way we submit projects before deadline. And most of all, our dedication to maintaining a certain level of quality in our work.
Based on HOW we work, the clients will have their own visualization of our work ethics. What I’m saying is, I can write in a pajama all day if I want to, but if I project the image of a professional, it doesn’t matter even if I work perched on top of a toilet bowl — the client will never know. And they are free to imagine, of course, that I wear a three piece suit to work inside an oak-paneled, sound-proof office inside my house — only, it’s not true. But, so what? Just like what you said, it’s the PROJECTED image that matters, not the real deal.
September 13th, 2007 at 9:30 am
“I don’t need hardwood floors and a big old globe to convince people I’m a professional.”
I have hardwood floors and a big old globe. Dang it, I want more money.
September 13th, 2007 at 9:36 am
I WANT hardwood floors and a big old globe. Throw in a big oak desk too.
September 13th, 2007 at 10:29 am
I have an office, but really, unless I tell my clients otherwise, they have no idea where I’m working (or when or that I’m in my pajamas).
But I know writers who have a lovely office area but use the family phone (or worse, the family answering machine) or have cute email names or use a family email address. In other words, they don’t present themselves in a professional manner.
I guess I’m agreeing with what Mariella said above (although I do have hardwood floors, but the globe would only take up space I need to spread around my paperwork).
What an office looks like is subjective. In my last “real” (for want of a better word) job, I would have killed for the amount of space of Deb’s new office area. I worked with people who had so little space in their cubes that they’d work at the conference room table (kind of like the dining room table, huh).
Once I was working on my back porch on a beautiful summer day when an editor called. I told her I wasn’t in my office at the moment. She said, “If it is as beautiful there as it is here, I hope you’re able to be working outside.” Editors know . . .
September 13th, 2007 at 10:30 am
I have a laptop that I am bringing with me when I move to Hawaii on Saturday, so my office will be a Presario laptop on my lap for five hours during the flight. Does that mean my writing quality will be unprofessional? Hell no! When I get to my new apartment, I will have a large bedroom with a very nice computer desk/chair waiting for me.
Will that make my writing more professional? No way! It’s the words that I will be writing that will determine the professionalism- not the work environment.
And just to keep everybody updated, I have still NOT been paid by LCP publications, nor have they contacted me since I wrote them two professional articles. Never send LCP any articles without at least half of the $50 payment sent to your Paypal account by these people first.
September 13th, 2007 at 11:04 am
Rob, I think you better read the LCP thread about their paying through PayPal.
September 13th, 2007 at 11:42 am
There’s a stereotype of professionalism and there are those who believe that anything outside that stereotype is counterproductive - until you prove them wrong.
Yes, we freelancers know that it’s possible to get your work done anywhere. We know that creativity rarely flourishes in an office wearing a suit. But, our clients don’t always know, believe, or trust that. It’s just not something they’re used to seeing. Whether it’s right or fair really doesn’t matter. What matters is our ability to continue to get writing jobs and work in the environment that’s most convenient and effective for us.
I won’t change the way I work to change clients’ perception of me. If my professionalism or work quality is ever called into question because of my work environment, I’ll just point to my portfolio. If questions remain, that person can go hire another writer.
September 13th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
I agree with Deb, Latoya, and all the others who have said similar things.
I have posted on my blog many times about where I work. I have posted pictures of both my office and my porch, and I have discussed the fact that I work better when I can change the scenery periodically. Heck, I once even dedicated an entire post to my new desk chair!
Like Latoya, I think my website and portfolio contains the means to convince any doubting client that I am a professional. And also like Latoya, if they still aren’t convinced — well, that’s probably not the type of person (or company) I wanted to work with, anyway.
September 13th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
By the way, Tamara –
It sounds like Canada is more flexible with the home office deduction than the United States. Somehow, that doesn’t surprise me very much. Lucky you.
September 13th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Pam says:
“If a client asks you what you are wearing today or where you are in the home, I would start to worry about the client.”
I agree. That would be creepy. Particularly if they want to know what I’m wearing.
September 13th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Okay, I think we ALL agree on one thing — we want more money for our hard work!!!!!!
September 13th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
I think that’s one of the conclusions we can come up with
September 13th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
Great debate! I think it’s true that some places will think less of us for where we work, but that’s ok. There are plenty of well-paying clients who couldn’t care less. I work on my living room couch in my PJs most of the time. I’m more comfortable, and therefore more productive. I have an office, but I hate working there!
Let the old-school folks sit behind their huge ancient-forest derived desks and look down their noses at us. The telecommuting employee (in or out of their PJs) is where things are headed and I applaud everyone here who refuses to give in to the notion that a business suit makes for a better employee! This is how change happens.
September 13th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
Definitely. I think we could take it a step further, though, and say that we would all like to see rates in general go up, rather than just our own.
September 13th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
By the way — many of my posts this morning were from the porch. You wouldn’t have guessed, though, so who cares?
Today is typical of autumn in Colordao — perfect crisp air with lots of sun. My favorite!
September 13th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Interesting debate. I can see both sides of it.
If I worked in a field where a client had to come into my office/home, I’d make sure I had a suitable office to invite him into. Although I have a small workspace carved out of one side of my bedroom, I am more often found working on my (unmade) bed with my laptop. Would I invite a client in to my current working arrangement? Absolutely not. I’d be mortified. But working as I do, strictly by telecommuting, I don’t see my work environment as an issue.
However, coming from a background of working in a very corporate high-end suit-and-tie-or-you-die environment, I can also see the point Writing for Dollars is trying to make. If I was doing freelance work for my former employer, and they came across a picture on my site of me working in my pajamas on my unmade bed, it would certainly be a turn-off. Would they fire me over it? Probably not. But if they were just considering me for the job, I’m thinking they’d give me a pass based on that.
Although I do a lot of corporate writing work, I don’t share a corporate mindset. I don’t care much what people think of me, and if they think less of me for who I am or how/where I work, then that’s not really the type of person I want to work for. Still, I can see how others might feel differently. I think it’s all a matter of perception and personality.
September 13th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Angela, I think you’ve whittled this argument down well.
This may be off-topic, and I apologise, but what’s been said here has me thinking more about how we have embarked on an age of ‘presumed annonymity.’
Blogs and facebook and the like, their ready accessibility, have made it very easy for potential employers to google-and-choose. While I have no desire to work for the high-end corporate world again, I do consider carefully what I put my last name on whilst commenting on the Internet. My blog, though, is rather personal, but always told in a creative non-fiction voice. Thus, it is a true representation of who I am.
In this way, I am always concerned about image. It seems most of us are to some extent, but some of us are more comfortable with the hominess of honesty than others. I applaud them for that.
Some writers I know have several ‘representations’ of themselves out there: a blog for the personal observations; a professional CV-based site; and perhaps another with more career-based information.
It will be interesting to see how the world (and work world) adjusts to this ‘open book’ tendency, especially as the younger generations have no qualms about putting it all out there for the world to see.
September 13th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Amen, I consider myself a professional and I share a computer, still use a pen and paper and don’t even have a laptop (yet, I hope to afford on soon) I am a darn good writer and my work proves that, not my work space!
September 14th, 2007 at 12:48 am
That letter is probably the pettiest, most ridiculous thing Ive ever read, lol. Writers are artists, artists are tempermental and they need a space that will bring out the creative juices. Everyone knows that, lol.
September 14th, 2007 at 4:46 am
When I worked as an editorial assistant, I worked with someone who was in a position to hire lots of freelancers. I was envious of the freelancers in their hip, casual clothes, while I walked around in my suits and heels. I was also envious of their ability to make their own hours and work where they wanted. Most traveled with laptops.
If they needed to take a meeting, they would come to our offices. It’s very rare the client would travel to visit them.
I guess my point is this: The owners and editors of a large NYC publishing firm were aware that freelancers didn’t work in traditional offices or dress in traditional business clothing, but this was never an issue.
September 14th, 2007 at 8:52 am
Deb, I had that same feeling while I was the content editor with an educational publishing company.
I thought it was cool that freelancers could make money and not have to sit in those hour long daily meetings about nothing. When the senior editor mentioned how much freelancers made I said “How do I get that job?!” Needless to say, my senior editor did not look amused.
Less than six months later I was freelancing full-time, praying it would work for me. I had already tried teaching math, then I tried editing math. I hated both. I was hoping that writing math would pay the bills and not drive me crazy. So far so good!
September 14th, 2007 at 11:16 am
Then another conclusion we can come up with, I think, is that we, freelancers, are very “cool”
September 16th, 2007 at 10:50 am
Of course we are
September 16th, 2007 at 10:55 am
I personally do not think that a designated office space necessarily makes any freelancer’s work more professional than the rest. The office may make a freelancer look and seem more professional as a person, but I know there are many freelance bloggers and journalists out there that deliver higher-quality work without offices.
I’m in a classic ‘on the fence’ position on the issue when it applies to me personally. On the one hand, I’m a sucker for lying in bed or sitting outside to complete my work, however there are also times when I feel I get the best work done when I’m sitting in my family’s office in front of a desktop computer.
I guess it really does depend on the freelancer’s attitude and personal preference when it comes to where they work. Be it the local coffee shop or the spotless office space, as long as the work is top-notch, the employers are happy.
September 17th, 2007 at 7:30 am
I give you kudos for working from home. I’ve been working in an office at a newspaper for two years and I can’t stand it! Everyday I dream of being able to work from home (or the coffee shop) and complain about having to go into the office. In my experience, I’ve found that offices are distracting and negatively affect one’s work. I believe I’d get a lot more done -and still be considered a professional - if I worked from home.