Your mail and comments tell me you want to hear more from people who hire writers. What are they looking for? What keeps them from hiring certain writers and what draws their eye to an applicant? Are there particular things they look out for? Let me share my experience with you.
Last week I found myself in a position where I needed to take out an ad for writing help. Though I posted the ad on a major job site, it was also reposted here and other re-listing blogs. I didn’t use my name as I didn’t want that to influence anyone, make people nervous or keep them from applying. Plus, whenever I tell people I’m hiring I get dozens of emails asking for personal hints and tips for getting the job. "Dear Deb, I’m a regular to your blog. Nudge. Nudge. Wink. Wink. What is your client looking for? Why don’t you tell me what you need so someone you know can have the gig. Nudge. Nudge. Wink. Wink."
The response was huge and it was interesting. Out of 300+ applicants, I only liked about five. There were lots of great writers and plenty of decent writers, but there were a few things that kept me from wanting to request more information from most of the candidates.
Lack of Proofreading
I’m always surprised when I receive cover letters, resumes and even writing samples riddled with misspellings and typos. True, no one’s perfect - but the one time you need to be perfect is when applying for a writing gig. Would I hire someone to write for me who can’t be counted on to proofread a cover letter? Someone told me he had errors on his cover letter because he wanted to get his details in ahead of the pack and couldn’t take the time to proof. Does that mean if I asked someone to write something on a quick deadline, it’s ok to send me back a typo-laden, misspelled piece of work because it met the deadline?
Can’t Follow Directions
I’ve been accused of being nitpicky before. I think though, there are occasions where one should be nitpicky. I didn’t leave a huge laundry list of requirements and instructions for candidates but there were a couple of things I did ask for. I asked for a specific subject title. The reason I did this is because I receive hundreds of emails each day and I could quickly sort the job applications into their own specific folder to read when I had time to look them over properly. Only a couple of dozen applicants put the requested title in the subject line.
My second request was for no attachments. Would you believe most of the people who sent resumes and samples used attachments? For me this wasn’t as much a virus issue as much as it’s more convenient to scroll down to read everything than to open attachments. One person told me he didn’t send samples because I wasn’t accepting attachments. How does that help me to see if he’s a good writer and why bother responding at all?
Some other items of interest:
- I asked for rate quotes which very few writers sent. Those who did, quoted less than .10 per word, mostly .03 or .04 per word. I found this rather interesting as it indicates to me either writers low bid to beat out the competition or they don’t have enough faith in an employer’s ability to pay a higher wage. I also found this rather distressing, to be honest. We talk a lot about asking employers to pay us what we’re worth and when asked for a quote writers bid a couple of cents. No wonder they’re paying so low, we’re dictating the rates.
- One applicant sent several blank emails. I found out later she was hoping for me to send her an email saying "hey I didn’t get your email" so she could get my name and direct email address.
- Though I didn’t give my name, I did mention the business and exactly what type of writing we’re looking for. Several applicants sent emails saying, "You didn’t tell us you name. If you want my details you’re going to have to give me more information about you." Why would I bother to respond? I can understand withholding certain details such as phone number and address, but to send a rude email won’t get you the job. I did give a good amount of information and there was no reason to send rude emails.
Cover Letters
I received some perfect cover letters. Others were a little less than perfect. Many just had a line or two - "Here’s my resume and writing samples, nothing else needs to be said, Sincerely, Joe" Sorry Joe, that’s not good enough.
A Learning Experience
All in all, taking this ad out was an interesting experience. I received some cover letters and resumes that truly rocked and others that had no business being sent. The writing samples ran the gamut from pieces published in the New York Times and Good Housekeeping to non-paying web content. What bothered me the most is how many writers didn’t feel they needed to read the entire ad. I really do think it’s important to follow directions. The low quotes bothered me a little too, but not as much as the not paying attention to details.
Anyway, that’s my feedback. Proofread, quote what you’re worth, and follow directions. Sell yourself and don’t be afraid to indulge in a little shameless self promotion. The good news is this experience turned me on to some really great writers. I have new blogs to subscribe to and learned a ton of interesting things from your samples. It was an exhausting experience, though. There really is a lot of competition and that’s why you need to be the best.
March 14th, 2008 at 3:50 am
Hey Deb - That rocks as feedback. I wasn’t in anyone that applied, but I’m interested in your thoughts. It’s also an eye opener, but at the same time…
I thought as much.
You mentioned surprise at the low rates - I’m not. People talk. Writers brag. Writers like to go on about how much they earn when they really don’t. It makes people feel like crap, and I wish everyone would just stop the games. Your rates do not establish your self worth.
You mentioned typos and mistakes - there are a LOT of writers out there who just aren’t cut for it and desperately believe they are. I find it sad that they either don’t want to improve or don’t want to take the time to learn how on their own. Or maybe they just don’t want to hear it. I’m all for encouraging people, but it’s ridiculous sometimes. I have no problems admitting that I can’t do certain things. I’m very good in other areas. So be it.
Not reading instructions? People pull sneaky shit. Or they’re lazy. Or they’re ignorant. It’s annoying, definitely. There’s no excuse for that.
Applicants being smart? Smart ass is more like it, and that’s a sure way to not get a job.
Okay, I’m probably going to get razzed enough as it is, so I’ll stop for now. Thanks for putting up your feedback to give people something to think of and for giving me something to think on as well.
March 14th, 2008 at 3:51 am
*sigh* I knew it. I got caught in spam.
March 14th, 2008 at 4:38 am
That was great feedback. I don’t think I applied, at least I hope not since I didn’t hear anything back! Your feedback gives me a great deal of information to help improve my applications when I do start applying for jobs again. Thank you!
I appreciate all those that have given feedback recently and for the continuous job postings, even if I am overbooked as it is!
March 14th, 2008 at 5:13 am
Good feedback Deb.
When I apply for a job, I copy and paste the ad onto the Word document just below my letter. I then write my note and double-check the ad constantly while writing to ensure I’m fulfilling all the requirements listed.
I copy and paste my note into my email and then I check the ad one more time to be sure I have the write subject line - many employers require specific subject lines for the reason you mention - filtering - and also to see who really reads the ad.
Not that I’ve had much success.
Most of my work comes from cold calling and networking. But, you never know so you just keep trying.
March 14th, 2008 at 5:22 am
@James, you said, “You mentioned surprise at the low rates - I’m not. People talk. Writers brag. Writers like to go on about how much they earn when they really don’t. It makes people feel like crap, and I wish everyone would just stop the games. Your rates do not establish your self worth.”
I’m not understanding your comment. Do you think writers can’t make more than 10 cent a word, or did you mean something else? I’m not sure what you’re saying. I make enough to live on with just blogging, so I know others can. I also made a bunch more when I did other sorts of writing, so I also know people can. Your comment makes it sound like 04 is what people should expect, which, frankly, doesn’t sound like you… Just wondering what you mean.
March 14th, 2008 at 5:32 am
@ Jennifer - You misunderstood my comment. Deb mentioned being surprised at writers offering to work for low pay. I said I’m not surprised that they’re offering low pay. Writers continually walk around bragging they make good money - great!! But the truth is that in private, they shoot themselves in the foot and undercut their own worth.
If you’re going to talk the talk, then walk the walk. Writers should charge a fee that makes sense for the time, effort and skill they put in - and yes, I think writers can make more than .20 and .30 a word.
Hope that explains
March 14th, 2008 at 5:43 am
I’ve been out of town and didn’t see your job posting, but as I writer, I find it very difficult to quote a per word price. I’ve been paid anywhere from .75 to .03 per word. Let me tell you, those .75 per word jobs take a lot more work and research and expertise than the .03 jobs.
It is often hard to figure out from an ad exactly how much research, writing and re-writing and the level of technical expertise that is going to be required. As a result, I rarely answer ads that insist that I name a per word or per project rate. I also have reservations because I wonder if the employer is bottom fishing to see what the lowest he can pay is. I find it very helpful if the employer gives some clue about how much he is expecting to pay. It doesn’t have to be an exact amount, just some sort of indication.
I do have a target hourly rate, but if the employer doesn’t know anything about how fast I research, write and edit, quoting a per hour rate is not going to be too helpful to them and may scare them off. I have written in cover letters something like “On a project similar to yours, I was paid .20 per word. My exact rate will depend on the amount of research and writing required and is negotiable.” So Deb, how would you feel about a writer who said something like that when you ask for a per word rate?
March 14th, 2008 at 5:46 am
Tish, I have no problem with that. When I ask for a quote it’s mostly so that I don’t underpay a writer. You know how many writers don’t want to quote a price that’s too low? I don’t want to offer a price that’s too low. I think this way we can reach something that works well for all parties involved. I do believe most rates are negotiable - but a writer shouldn’t stray too far from her bottom line.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:02 am
@James, cool beans. I was worried there for a minute. I don’t think writers should be offering less than 30-50 a word or 15-20 an hour, (project dependent of course) because I know you can make much more than that even. Thanks for explaining.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:31 am
@ Jennifer - lol, thanks for worrying.
Now, my rant said, keep in mind that I’m all for writers doing what they have to do to make ends meet. If you (general you) *need* to write for $0.03 a word to feed your kids, do it. Don’t even think twice. And those writers who look down on you for it? Tell ‘em where to go.
But don’t go about offering yourself up at low rates and positioning yourself at a dead end if you don’t have to.
And don’t go about pretending that you earn four times that to make yourself feel bigger by making others feel small, either.
I think my rant is done. Thanks for listening, everyone
March 14th, 2008 at 6:48 am
@Tish: I share your viewpoint. I rarely apply for jobs that request a rate quote. If I do, it’s a really interesting assignment or topic. Overall, job posters know what they’re willing to pay per word for an assignment. In this case, why ask for a rate quote? I feel that “some” job posters look specifically for the lowest bidder. Deb, I know this doesn’t apply to you, but I believe that a few job posters as for “rate quotes” as a way to get something for nothing.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:23 am
Valencia ~ I’ve had to hire a few assistants for grant writing projects in the past, and I asked for a rate quote, and you’re right I knew before hand what I was willing to pay (or, at least what the company was) and still I asked. I figure if someone quoted below market rate (for grant writers) that they had no clue. It’s a good way for some people hiring to weed out non-professional writers.
If I had to hire for a web project and put an ad out, there’s no way I’d hire someone quoting 03 a word or $5 an hour, because I’d doubt their abilities - pros do not charge that little. So, I think that’s another reason people ask for quotes.
Also, three times now, I’ve had people ask for quotes and later during a talk with them, they said they honestly had no clue what to offer, thus asked. I think it’s just as bad if a hiring party has no clue about rates, BUT as writers that’s giving us the chance to tell them what we’re worth. If we say .03 a word, that’s what they’ll assume is the going rate.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:50 am
I am in the fortunate position of not (at present) worrying about how to put food on the table, but am still new enough to freelancing to be tempted to ask for or accept lower pay rates than I feel I am worth.
It’s been coming here and reading the encouragement of others that I’ve gained the courage not to undersell myself and my skills. It may take me longer to find that paying position, but I won’t feel resentful while I do it.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:50 am
I don’t mean to sound ungrateful, as I really think this site is a great source for writers. But….I think there are many contradictory messages sent through this blog. Deb mentions that she was disturbed that some writers quoted $.03 or less per word when they responded to her ad. Yet, many job leads posted on this site are for “low pay” that offers exactly the same pay rates that were being quoted. Today’s job leads, for example, included one from LoveToKnow that amounts to a little more than $.03 per word. Yesterday, there was at least one lead for a project that was paying $.02 per word.
I have nothing against these projects, because it really comes down to how quickly and professionally each writer feels he can complete the project. I don’t know the scope of the project Deb posted, so maybe people should have been quoting more than $.03 per word. Nonetheleess, I find the whole thing to be contradictory. If we want the writing community to “demand” hire rates, then jobs that clearly offer “low rates” shouldn’t even be posted here. After all, that sends the message to the writing community that these are the rates they should expect to be paid.
Personally, I think those ads should be posted for those writers that are interested. But, does anyone else see the contradiction here?
March 14th, 2008 at 7:52 am
I do proofread my cover letters over and over before sending them, and I know many of you do, too. That said, I find it discouraging how many of the job ads I see are just filled with errors–careless typos, misspellings, a general lack of any kind of grammatical sense and clarity (am I the only person who’s sometimes read an ad and thought, “Ummm…what do you want?”). When I see that, I wonder if the people placing the ads are professionals at all. I know, it would be easy to say, “They probably aren’t-don’t apply to those places.” However, I really think that the majority of ads posted have these basic mistakes. If that’s the case, I wonder how many of them even recognize typos in a person’s cover email/letter. And if they can’t take the time to write their ads well, how high a standard should they hold us too? I always want to be perfect and know prospective employers expect me to be that and that’s their right. Nevertheless, I sometimes resent the fact that I put so much effort into my response but they put so little into their ad.
While I’m ranting, here are two of my other big gripes with ads: 1) those that don’t give any details about what they’re looking for, such as, “We’re looking for a blogger.” Blog about what? Aliens? Chipmunks? Hay? 2) Ads that don’t give you any sense of the timeline involved. Are you looking for someone now? Or for a project that starts in three months? Sometimes I’ve sent in for jobs, not heard back anything for two weeks or so, then suddenly get an email four months later about the job. I guess I just always would like to know when I should give up on something.
Sorry, rant over.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:56 am
@ Skippy - I understand your irritation, but honestly, people who write ads like that really *do* need writers.
Their lack of knowledge of what information we need to do our jobs isn’t their fault, either. I may need an electrician but I wouldn’t know the first thing about telling him how to wire my house.
March 14th, 2008 at 10:32 am
This sounds like everything I’m trying to teach my students about resume and cover letter writing. Maybe I should show them this post to prove that employers really do think this way.
March 14th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
@Elizabeth - My rule is that I don’t offer anything under $10. As there are writers of all levels here, and as $10 an hour in certain parts of the world makes a great salary, I will continue to post them.
However, a common complaint among many writers is the lack of high paying jobs. With that in mind, I did expect to see some .10 or .20 per word or .50 per word quotes and didn’t get a single one. My point is that we shouldn’t be surprised by the rates since we’re the ones setting them. If I didn’t offer .03 or.05 worders, these pages would be pretty empty. Right now, it’s either this or nothing. In the meantime, we can discuss what we’re really worth and ways to change the offerings.
@Skippy - Many of the ads are frustrating. The typos don’t bother me too much because many people are advertising for writers because they can’t write themselves. Granted, there are some that are way over the top but that’s a good sign to steer clear. And you’re also right, it’s hard to quote the vague ads.
Here’s the thing, if you’re not going to quote a rate, is it possible to let the employer know you read the quote part anyway? “In regard to your request for quotes, it wouldn’t be possible for me to do so without more information as to what this job entails.” I could accept it. Then I would send you a note describing the task in more detail and ask for another quote.
March 14th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Just to let it be known, this has been perhaps the most helpful thread I have read in a long time. I personally have a terrible time figuring out what to quote; particularly per word. Now I’m getting a much better sense of what will be an acceptable medium between myself and the client.
Thanks!
March 14th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Great post! I admit, I’ve been sending extremly short cover letters when sending queries after reading that blog post about how that tea company received 500 queries from here. So, my thought was to keep it very short and get to the point. This has landed me a lot of work recently because the “seeker” has been appreciative, but apparently it doesn’t appeal to all job posters.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
@Elizabeth - My take on the people who bash others for taking low rates is this - You’d NEVER walk up to a stranger on the street, ask him/her how much they make and then proceed to criticize them. I don’t feel anyone has the right to tell others how much to charge. It’s a dog eat dog world and we’re all doing what we can to survive.
My mother’s 65, planned to retire at this age to return to her hometown in England and live out the rest of her life. Unfortunately, the bank where she’d worked for close to 10 years decided to lay-off her entire check overdraft department, send the jobs to India and give everyone ONE week to clear out their desks. She’s just spent eight months finding someone who would hire her at her age because suddenly everything is gone. Because she was laid off before 10 years, things are out the window.
She’s taken a job that pays half what she was making because after 30 interviews she had 15 offers, 12 of them offered her $7 an hour, 2 offered her $7.50 an hour (including Pepsi Co. who needed a front desk manager - $7.50 for a MANAGER!!!), and this one with an organic grocer offered her $8.50 an hour with no benefits.
Working half days, I make pay almost equivalent to her and that’s taking some of the lower paying writing jobs. Plus, I don’t have to drive 30 miles each way. I’ll never complain for that very reason and I’m not about to bash others for accepting a low paying writing job. Again, you do what it takes to survive.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
@Jenn - While I do believe short and sweet it’s the best way to go, I also think you can be too short and sweet. One liners saying the resume is attached don’t tell me why a candidate is best for the job. A paragraph or two is best - or at least in my opinion.
@Ann G. - I don’t think anyone should be bashing those who work for low wages. I think my point is that we shouldn’t be surprised by the current wages because that’s what many writers are asking for.
We all do what we have to do to make ends meet. I respect anyone making an honest living no matter where he or she works - or for how much.
What I don’t get is why the same people who are commenting here to complain about the low wages, are quoting low wages in their cover letters.
We can’t complain about .03 per word or even be surprise it’s offered if this is what we’re asking to be paid.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Now to the response to the topic at hand. While I do not hire writers for money, I do accept writers for book reviewing, which means free books for anyone interested.
When I first started book reviewing eight years ago, it was a hard gig to land. I hear it used to be a paid job, but that’s before my time I guess. Today there are blogs galore and the publishers are no longer taking some sites seriously because the market is flooded.
I am always in need of writers, but few are willing to work for free books only. Few seem to understand that after I pay for postage and site fees, any advertising I do rarely covers all of that. Not only that, but if a reviewer walks with a book, I pay to have the book replaced if the author is clearly upset over it. That eats into my own money too. They feel I’m rolling in the dough and have plenty to be offering a salary. I had a friend was writing for the magazine Romantic Times a couple years ago. Even RT doesn’t pay their reviewers and they are a magazine that makes a decent amount of money.
This leads me to my pet peeves when getting responses from ads posted online:
1. I clearly state “free books but NO pay” in my ads, yet 90% of all the applicants I get ask how much they’ll be paid. When I send them a copy of the ad highlighting the words, get this response 50% of the time - “Oh, I figured you meant low pay.” I don’t know how the get “low pay” from the words “NO pay,” but some just do.
2. I also clearly state that due to shipping costs and time frames, I only accept reviewers in the contigious United States. Yet 70% of all applicants will be from other countries saying they’d like me to make an exception.
3. I’ve had people send me resumes that were seven-pages long. I don’t have the time to read all that. If you’ve ever seen one of my ads, you’ll see that I state no resume is needed, just links to writing samples and a quick note about yourself is necessary.
For me, those who fail to read the ad are the ones who I delete immediately. If you really can’t take the time to read four or five sentences in an ad, how are you going to read a full book and then offer a solid critique.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
@Ann G - You can have the publisher or publicist send the book straight from the reviewer thereby eliminating all the fees for you. I started doing that with the contests on my other blog. Postage really adds up so I just ask the publicist or manufacturer to send stuff out. Usually they’re happy to oblige.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
@Tish - I prefer to give project quotes too for that exact reason. They’ll multiply my hourly rate by the time they figure it will take them, and go “Hey, that’s too much!”. If the client asks me for a quote on a simple project like a 500 word SEO article, I’ll give them a range and explain that research, technical level, etc. will affect the range. If it is someone on the “inside” like a marketing firm who wants to hire me, I might tell them what my hourly rate is because they likely have a good idea of how long various writing pieces will take anyway.
Hourly rates are vital to help writers determine a project cost. But in my experience, quoting a per-hour or per-word rate can be dangerous.
~Graham
P.S. What are all of you doing up so early this morning…!?!
March 14th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
This is my favorite blog on the web and probably the best resource for finding freelance writing jobs.
I do need to chime in about rates though. It’s equally scary when jobs don’t post rates or ask for them. They will offer you the job with a lowball rate and then act surprised when you can’t take the job.
Rates need to be up front on everyone’s part. I write for the education market and I have to be careful what I take because of the time factor as I am a fulltime teacher as well.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Deb,
I’m curious if you were willing to respond to writers who wanted more information about the type of writing they would be doing in order to quote you a fair price? Or was the job duty listed in the ad?
I find it hard to quote an hourly rate if I don’t know what the job entails. If it requires more research, I hike up my fee.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Hi Sandra,
Not one writer asked for more details in order to send an appropriate quote. I don’t have problems with giving out more information, however. If someone wrote to me saying he needed more information to provide the quote, I would have been happy to oblige.
It was a good lesson for me too though, the more details offered in the ad, those better able writers are to offer a quote.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
@ Graham - 5am comes fast in my parts of the world. Such is a regular workday.
@ all - A couple of comments made me curious. It seems people are literally afraid of not getting a job.
Why?
So there’s a job. So you have a target rate. So you quote. So the person says, “Are you freakin’ kidding me??! That’s way too high! I want supercheap low-quality writers!”
Okay, dude, bye-bye, have fun with that. What’s the big deal? You, the writer, didn’t really want a job (or client) like that anyways, did you?
What’s wrong with quoting with confidence? Stop worrying about what the buyer will pay - if he wants you, he’ll haggle or mention that he’s tight on money. You’ll haggle or send him on his way. Set your rate, be proud of it, and then let it go if it doesn’t work out. Why all this fear?
(Of course, if you’re consistently getting turned down, there’s something wrong and a little analysis into the reasons can’t hurt…)
March 14th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
I apply on the web quite regularly; although recently I’ve been too busy with steady gigs.
It seems whenever I apply, perhaps this is hard to believe, one out of five respond. Out of that ratio, one in three are worth taking.
I am not a math expert, if I was I’d probably do something else, but that’s a lot of trawling.
The ease in which I work with the editors or publishers is my yardstick.
Believe me, some editors are worse than writers. It takes a certain verve to be able to work with writers and take the time to really communicate what is needed and wanted. I admire any editor who demonstrates that with ease.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
I’ve had my share of experience with Jekyll and Hyde editors. They expect you to read their mind via the internet.
Good editors tell you what they want and what changes they need. The best editors are those with a lot of patience and a short, easy to understand contract.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
@James - As one who lost a lucrative writing job when SideStep sold to Kayak, I’ve learned that though there are always other jobs out there, other GOOD jobs are not as common. I had a one year contract that was cancelled after eight months without any warning. I had to find out online why they weren’t responding to emails finding out why invoices were not being paid.
I send out probably 10 resumes/cover letters per day. Some days I’ll hear back from all 10 and others I’ll hear back from two or three. I’ve learned now to keep myself with at least five different clients at any given time. As a noted pessimist, I find I function best if I use the mindset that this may not last and I could be in serious trouble tomorrow if my income is depleted.
@Deb - I have a handful of publicists who are willing to send to reviewers directly, but there are lots more who do not want to clutter their computer databases with numerous contacts for one site, especially when reviewers tend to come and go, so they only want books being sent to the site owner. It costs them money to send books to a person who quit reviewing and often it takes their database people a month or two to catch up with mailing address changes so for two months, they are sending books to a person with no intent on handling a review.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
What a wonderful piece Deb! I truly enjoyed this feedback and value your opinion. I know that figuring out what to quote is difficult at times and sometimes we lose numerous clients when we quote anything over 0.15- 0.20 cents. I think writers should be paid for the experience they have and there are many companies that offer a mere 0.2 cents per word for a 500 word article that requires research. It is just crazy! It is like the rest of the world thinks we are desperate and that we will write for peanuts. Not me, not anymore! I did that in the beginning of my career and it was tough. I would rather put in the hard work for a 0.25-0.75 per word article any day! Got to pay the rent right! Thanks again, you rock!
Natasha
March 14th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Thank you, Deb, for a very useful piece. A few comments…
Like Jenn, I’ve also shortened most of my responses. Bullet lists often work well.
I’m with Sandra about the rates… if the ad is short or unsubstantive, who knows what to quote!? I usually list ranges; I prefer hourly rates to word or project rates.
For the big picture, I agree with Marijke about cold calls and networking — they seem to yield more for me than answering ads.
In the end, I look philosophically at answering ads. Writing is very personal, and my style may not mesh with employers’, so I look at rejection as a positive because poor fits can be a strain on everyone’s time and nerves!
L
March 14th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
@ Ann - Oh, I hear you on that. But when you send out your letters, do you automatically charge the lowest price in absolute terror that you won’t get THAT job? Or do you charge the price you feel is right and if you don’t get the job, you just keep on trying? Big difference
@ Sandy - Why assume that all job ads are from editors? There are tons of people posting ads, from plumbers to CEOs. These people can’t be expected to give clear guidelines and need both help to clarify what they want and help to know how to hire a writer, wouldn’t you say?
March 14th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
@Kenna - I’ve been lucky, most of the editors I’ve had are lovely people. One sticks out though.
I’d been writing for her site for a year and then she asked if I’d be willing to do her press release. I agreed and asked her to let me know what key points she wanted featured. I did the first draft and she sent it back saying it was perfect but she’d changed her mind and wanted to go in a different direction focusing the content to a potential advertiser instead of the average traveler (a site for ex-British Pats who moved to Spain). I explained that since there was nothing wrong with my first draft other than her own change of plans, I was going to have to charge a little extra because it would be taking me more time.
She fired me on the spot, refused to pay me for the first press release and said if I was going to be that difficult she’d do the work herself. What’s funny is that up until I asked for more money, she’d been very motherly and sweet for the entire year. So her inner demons definitely came out that day.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Echo a lot of what James had to say.
While I personally haven’t run into writers claiming one quote than charging a much lower rate, their are some sales books that suggest presenting one’s business much larger than it is so that you don’t “leave money on the table” when you can get a higher rate and to help push the business to that rate (power of positive thinking, and similar ideas).
@Deb,
I didn’t apply for it, whatever it was, but I’d be curious to know what it was (or at least what type of writing, if not specifically identifying it).
Think your feedback was great, by the way.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
@Ann - I also wrote travel guides for Sidestep. And I have to say, that opportunity spoiled me. I could write a guide in 1-2 hours, so the hourly rate was excellent. Although I stopped working for pennies a long time ago, I made the decision to “up” my standards after this experience. So far, so good. While the higher paying gigs are far in-between (and may take longer to get), they do exist.
March 14th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Deb:
Good comments, but quite frankly, if a job prospect does not accept attachments or cannot bother to open them, I have no interest in applying for the job and it’s the employers loss.
There are so many jobs out there, and someone should be able to do a bit of grunt work and open up an attachment as that is how most magazine clips, etc. come. My time is valuable, and if I cannot send out a resume and some attachments quick and easy, I’m moving on to the next potential employer, and it’s that person’s loss.
I think you are limiting the job pool quite a bit by making it tedious to apply to your posting. But hey, you are the employer, so you call the shots. That’s how the game is played, but why make it difficult?
And if you do not accept attachments, did you at least include a mailing address?
If anything, this points out the growing necessity for freelance writers to have well done web sites with lots of clips on them so you can just point someone to your web site if they do not accept attachments.
March 14th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
As a freelance writer/editor just starting out, I find Deb’s article is full of useful information. For that matter, so are all of the comments. But here’s an obviously amateur question: In this business, is there such a thing as being offered too much money for a simple gig? I had a client offer me a sum that made me uncomfortable because it just felt way too high for what I was writing. I talked him down because I didn’t want him to think I had burned him later on.
Has anyone else had any similar situations?
March 14th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
@Valencia - I landed one a few weeks ago - totally by accident. It was for a mystery shopping article that paid $200 for 1,000 words, but when I sent in my resume the slot had already been filed. A week before the deadline, the editor emailed me and said the other writer vanished on her and how was I with a tight deadline. Not only did my daughter have a blast getting to go clothes shopping, but they paid me within a week of the deadline, which I wasn’t expecting! My only problem now is that I’m still waiting on the magazine so that I can see my work. Because it’s a trade magazine, I can’t run out and buy one. But the editor told me my copy should be arriving soon…
March 14th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
To James:
Good point, but they have to start somewhere.
Most of my writing is done for or with editors in the education arena. Sometimes, that is a good thing; sometimes it’s bad.
March 14th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Good paying gigs makes the job worthwhile — direct deposit makes it easier.”)
Quality of submitting for a gig worth getting is very important. I love it when I know that applying for the gig is worth it.
At times, a post clarity needs improvement, I am not sure, which lets me know more about the editor — first impression. Can she communicate her needs easily?
March 14th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Great Post, Deb!
Just a couple of things. First, I’m just curious where you posted — what your job board of choice was.
Secondly, I think writers have to be cautious about giving out info, especially on some more prone-to-scam job boards such as craigslist.
As a rule, when I’m judging a potential client, the more work they put into their advertisement and what they want, then the more reliable I deem them to be. It also really helps if they refer applicants to a website and give a company name.
Tellingly, I received an e-mail three weeks ago (at 2:30 a.m.!) from the “I.R.S.” telling me how they had a refund for me, all I needed to do was give them some info, blah blah blah. I am certain it was the result of a craigslist ad I responded to, but which one I’ll never know. So while I see your point about people not giving you their info, I can certainly see their point also.
Perhaps there is a happy medium of listing your relevant experience, skills, and writing history, while politely requesting more information from the hirer.
Keep up the good work, Deb — you run a great site!!
March 14th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Oh, also — here is a case in point about writers willing to accept low wages:
http://www.genuinejobs.com/members/jobdetails.php?Job_ID=10034
$2.50 for 400 words equates to $.006 — 6/10 of 1 cent per word. I have to really wonder who the heck would write for that, at least in the U.S.
March 14th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Well, I took a low paying job that was posted on this site and here’s why. All of my writing experience, to date, has been in the print media. I have very little experience with internet writing, blogs, etc.. So, I figured it would be a great way for me to earn a few bucks and LEARN the business.
Honestly, I kind of look at it like getting a stipend for taking a class. It’s a blog, so I have to write daily. It’s great discipline and practice. Plus, I am learning about tags, categories, key words, Wordpress, linking, and this whole world of internet writing.
For me, right now, it’s the best of both worlds. I still have my print gigs going, which pay a whole lot more, but I now have a place on the internet that I can point people to take a look at my work. The site gets traffic, so as I build my own blogs, I’ll be able to point people there from my current gig. Every day I come across a new site or learn something that is of preseent and future value. Plus, its a subject that I need to stay current on, so this helps me to do the research, gather information and stay up to date. Even though the employer gets a good, dependable writer for very little money I benefit too. its a win, win situation.
March 14th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
@Gibreel Google
Quite a few employers don’t accept attachments because viruses are transmitted that way. I’d venture to say most prefer to have resumes and samples pasted to the body of the email.
Just as your time is valuable so is the employers. I guess we as the job-seeker have to figure out who gets the luxury of convenience. The ones who are looking for the job or the ones who are hiring.
March 14th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
@ Loretta — I completely agree there are times to write for lower compensation, especially if it helps you break into a new market or a new medium of writing like the web. Having a link to a professional clip gives you credibility, and can be a career maker.
That said, there is a big difference between 400 words for $10 and 400 words for $2.50. With the former, you are at least getting (arguably) a living wage. Someone taking the latter is diluting the market and dragging U.S. writers down to wage levels of the Phillipines and India.
March 14th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Thanks for the post, Deb. A really interesting thread going on here too.
I can see why you’re leery of opening attachments, although I wondered about the comment about samples. A resume is easy enough to embed in an e-mail (although I would worry about the formatting), but are you also suggesting embedding the samples? I like to give potential clients the link to my online portfolio, which of course requires them to open up my website and click on various links. Is this something that employers would find onerous when they’re dealing with such a huge response?
Also, as a Canadian applying for US-based freelance gigs, I wonder if many employers would automatically think it would be too difficult to work with me, evn though I’m just across the border with fully functioning interweb?
March 14th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
@Doug B — I also had a client tell me recently that I had underbid a job. We’ve worked together a lot, and I based my bid on some previous jobs I’d done for her, but she was actually anticipating something that would require more research. She’s golden, and I got the gig for a higher price! So … when she asked me recently to lower my bid on a long-term series, I obliged, thinking that maybe I could cut my time per-piece after the first few.
Give a little, get a little …
But I still won’t work for 20 cents a word! If I don’t have a clue about the work, I quote high (usually $1 a word) and say I will set the actual fee when I know more about the gig. If they are looking for someone without my skill and experience, that’s fine with me. If they want me, they need to pay for me.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
@ Mary - Only if they are a U.S. writer, in which case they would be actually losing money on that job.
No one can really blame other people in other countries for charging rates that equate to their economy. The buyer gets what he pays for - which may or may not be very good or culturally related.
@ Loretta - There is a huge divide in an acceptable rate for print content and online content. You can’t expect to get one for the other, as they’re not the same industry. Generally, they should be the same quality, of course.
@ Sandy - Yes, everyone starts somewhere. The new plumbing guy won’t charge what the pro does - but the rates, while varied, should be within the same range and not wildly divergent.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
@ Christine - As a Canadian with a 95% U.S. client base, the answer to your question would be, “No.”
March 14th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
I personally prefer rates upfront. Mainly because i may not know what the going rate is for said article, topic. etc.
I do know what is too low a rate, but may not know the right rate.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Deb, you sure hit a nerve in a lot of us here. Really great discussions by everyone!
I landed a job yesterday for which I had put in what I felt was a decent bid–when it was all said and done, I discovered I will be earning about $0.03/word…but it is a new writing endeavor for me, something new I can add to my resume, a client who looks like she will be a dream with whom to work…and a decent total earnings…so I am excited and proud to have landed the job.
My point is that each of us has our own set of reasons and rationale for what we do. None of needs to feel shame for the needs we have. But along the way, just know that we don’t have to settle for the lower pay rates. When we get the chance to ask for what we feel we are worth, don’t be afraid to take the risk. No one is going to offer us more than we ask for, and I think that is part od Deb’s point.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
I have to echo a lot of what James said, most especially this:
“Now, my rant said, keep in mind that I’m all for writers doing what they have to do to make ends meet. If you (general you) *need* to write for $0.03 a word to feed your kids, do it. Don’t even think twice. And those writers who look down on you for it? Tell ‘em where to go.”
As a breadwinner supporting someone who’s differently-abled, and another one who’s in college, I’ll take any gig worth my while. There are medications to be bought, tuition fees to be paid — I’m just being practical.
@Deb> Hope you enjoyed my samples at least.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Wow, this discussion has certainly take off!!
@Deb: Here’s your response to me: @Jenn - While I do believe short and sweet it’s the best way to go, I also think you can be too short and sweet. One liners saying the resume is attached don’t tell me why a candidate is best for the job. A paragraph or two is best - or at least in my opinion.
I agree 100% and will take this to heart from now on when I query. I worry that these job seekers are so overwhelmed with queries that I cut mine down way too much. I read an article a few weeks ago saying to let your resume and clips speak for you . . . I took that too literally! LOL Thanks!
March 14th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
@Christine - I’m a Canadian writer and over half of my clients are in the US. When I approach companies, I don’t advertise the fact that I am Canadian, but they could easily find that out by looking up my area code. If they ask where I’m located, I tell them but usually they have no idea where Thunder Bay is! I use Minneapolis as a reference point for them, partially because they know where that is and partially to alleviate any uncomfortable feelings they may have about going “cross-border”.
I’m sure that I’ve lost some potential clients to other US writers, but if you sell your strengths they usually don’t dwell on my location (some even like the fact that they are dealing “internationally”). Once I’ve completed a few projects for them, it quickly becomes a non-issue anyway.
~Graham
March 14th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
@Location Discussion - I’m about to stop work for the day, but felt urged to come back here and read up. Two of my biggest clients have been from Spain and I’m in the U.S. Location really doesn’t matter. In fact, I landed one of these gigs because I was from the US and they wanted someone who could write “American-English.” (If you’ve ever been to the UK, you’ll understand that there is a HUGE difference between English and American English. I learned that years ago when I went to my mom’s Yorkshire hometown and used the phrase “bar-hopping.” I’ve never lived it down.
March 14th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
@Doug B I recently was offered something like $25 per post at a blog. That would have worked out to about $100 an hour since the topic is an easy one for me. I think they wanted 2 or 3 posts a week.
That said, I could tell the editor was brand new to the blog world and she said she wanted the site to grow, not simply content to fill the space. So I was honest with her and said the site won’t ever grow if I post only twice a week, and that if growth was the goal, the job needed to pay differently, so I could post daily, or they’d be shelling out $700 a month base (too much for that job).
I basically re-worked the fee with her so that I’m on a base rate for the whole month, instead of being paid by the post. It works out as a little less for me in the short term, but is still a fair, and pretty high wage for the work. Plus later no one can say how come you can’t grow the blog (on two posts a week).
Since I know what a blog needs to grow, and that’s what the client wanted, it would have been irresponsible for me to take the higher wage per post, knowing full well that nothing would come of it for the client.
In cases like this, where I know I’d be cheating a client, I’ll argue a lower rate, but I also always say, “Once the site grows, we can discuss a raise.”
March 15th, 2008 at 12:05 am
To Mary and anyone else who received a refund notice purportedly from the IRS as an e-mail — IT’S A PHISHING SCAM!!!! — I just completed a 1,000 word article on it that will appear in the April issue of Information Today.
Go to IRS Web site for more details (because article hasn’t appeared yet).
March 15th, 2008 at 12:25 am
@ Phil — Thanks for the info, and make sure to post a link to your article when it appears.
While I know there are many dedicated federal employees, I doubt any are so altruistic as to be sending out e-mails at 2:30 in the morning!
From a writing perspective, I’m concerned that scammers are using these job boards to post phony ads, with their sole intent being to harvest e-mails for their scams.
@ Deb — This might be a good future topic to cover — ferreting out real opportunities from the many scams that abound, and how to protect yourself during the process.
March 15th, 2008 at 2:38 am
@Gibreel Google
What’s wrong with copy/paste?
I would never send an attachment unless specified. You will go straight to spam. Copying and pasting takes no more effort or time than attaching.
March 15th, 2008 at 6:31 am
I really dislike sending any sort of personal information, particularly a resume which includes enough to basically impersonate me, to a blind ad. I’ve had my credit card stolen before. Believe me, while it’s nothing to full fledged identity theft, it’s a less than delightful experience. Fobbing off people’s security concerns as being unprofessional is pretty naive… not to mention unfair.
Otherwise, your experience roughly tracks with mine.
March 15th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
@dejah - I have too. What bothers me the most is that the laws protect the person who steal your credit card info. While I was told they knew the website where my information was stolen, they wouldn’t tell me which site so that I could avoid it in the future. I’d only used that card in two sites - one was Ebay’s pay system and the other was Half.com - so it has to have been one of the two. They also took six months “investigating” the case while that money sat in limbo on my account and then wouldn’t tell me a thing about who commited the crime. I honestly think if they gave you that info and then let you file all kinds of nasty charges personally against the wrongdoer, it might help put an end to some of this theft. All I was ever told was that the card was used at an online baby store based in London and that the person got away with $5,000 in baby gear. Beyond that, they said the mailing address where the packages were sent was confidential and not any concern of mine.
So on this note, I came across an ad on Craigslist today that offered you a job on the spot providing you gave them your Paypal email address and other personal info before submitting anything else. It’s rare that writing jobs are posted in VT, and when they are it’s always garbage of this nature.
March 15th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
I still think employers should state what their rates are - magazines do state their rates - why not employers?
No offence Deb!
March 15th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Gibreel Google - having hired people, opening up attachments does take quite a bit of time.
It is true that magazine clips are usually PDF files though - perhaps you can both copy and paste the article - plus include an attachment with an explanation?
However, I guess I am guilty of not following instructions too - as I do not provide quotes initially.
March 17th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Hey Deb,
Amazing information! I’m learning a lot.
I wanted to ask your opinion on including writing samples that have been published through Blogburst. Although the blog posts (articles) are being published on popular online news sites, there is no compensation for it.
I’m not sure what these writing samples are actually worth.
Thanks!
March 28th, 2008 at 8:13 am
hey deb..i am pallavi and a freelance writer..I got one job from your leads ,but that person didnt pay me and still i am working for my payments..thats ok what i want to say isi am regular to ur site and i like your discussion topics.I wish i can get some health related leads in coming future.thanx .keep going .its great and fun to b here always.