We Get Letters - The "Deb’s Talking Out of Her Butt Again" Edition
Lots of mail these past few weeks, and a lot to stay on top of. In addition to email, the About page is terribly neglected, so I’m also taking some of the questions from the comments left there.
Dear Deb,
How do you know you’re qualified for a gig?
Thanks for everything,
Lacey
Hi Lacey,
For me I can tell right away if I’m qualified. Many times I see an ad and just know in my heart of hearts I’m perfect for the gig. I don’t say, "Hmm….I wonder if I can do that." I look at the ad and say, "I know that’s the job for me." If I see a job ad and don’t have to think twice about whether or not I can do the work, I’m qualified. True, education, experience, they come into play too. But I have to feel the love before applying. I really do believe you can just look at a job and know.
Anyone else?
Deb
Dear Deb,
You seem to talk out of your a** a lot. I notice your community disagrees with you most of the time. Why don’t you give up pretending to be a freelance writer and go back to cheerful topics like saving money and party planning. You’re really bad at this.
Joe Blow
Hiya Joe,
If there’s one thing I make clear, it’s that I’m not an expert. I ‘ve been writing and blogging for over 20 years, so I think I know a little bit. Most of this blog is opinion, I talk about how I feel and the things that work for me. I’m hoping that even though many disagree, we can discuss like adults and offer insight to those just starting out.
The FWJ community is free to agree with my opinion or not. I’m sorry you don’t enjoy it here.
I’ll blog until no one visits anymore.
Hugs and kisses,
Deb
Hi Deb,
In following with Kate’s question just above, I was wondering if you might be willing to do a post about job lead sites that charge a membership fee, like GoFreelance.com. I’d love to know what you and your readers think about these sites. Is it worth subscribing? Are they generally scams? Which sites seem to be the most honest?
I’m about to jump head first out of the corporate world and into freelancing. I’d feel better if I had a gig or two lined up before I walk out so I want to make sure I’m looking and promoting myself in all the right places.
Thank you for your amazing blog!
Jessica AKA Rose
Hi Jessica…er…Rose,
I don’t believe sites that charge a fee are scams. Plenty of people find work for them. As someone who used to provide jobs for one of those pay to subscribe jobs newsletters, I know they don’t always have different jobs. Now, I haven’t paid for a job site in years, but when I did they offered the same jobs as the free sites. So maybe they’re not scammy but I guess it’s up to the individual to decide if they’re worth it?
I’ll talk about this in a future post,
Good luck,
Deb
Toba Says:
I just came across this site and think it is such a great idea. I have been writing poetry, novels, children’s stories, etc. since I was in Junior High. I am now 40 years old. Writing has always been my passion; however I have only shared it with friends and online websites. How do I get writing gig without a resume for “writing” If I make up a resume does it have to contain paid jobs or works? What do I do?
Thanks in advance for any help you are able to share.
Toba
Welcome Toba,
Many writers believe you don’t need a formal writer’s resume. Do you have writing samples? If so, that could be enough to get you some work. When you apply for the job don’t mention your lack of experience. Instead, discuss why your right for the job and include relevant writing samples. Many times employers are looking for the best writer for their project, that doesn’t necessarily mean the most experienced writer.
Good luck and don’t be a stranger,
Deb
Dear Deb,
You’re part of the low paying content problem. You say you only post jobs over $10 an hour. Well $10 an hour is crap. You just talk out of your a** and make people thing you care about writers but all you want is for them to click on your ads. If you really cared about writers you would only post jobs paying $50 an hour or more. You’re a cheeseball too.
From,
Not a Fan
Hi Not a Fan,
Well, you’re not the first person to think I’m talking out of my butt today. Thanks for your delightful email. I wish I could post nothing but $50 per hour jobs. I mentioned this yesterday at another blog where someone mentioned cheeseballs (hmmm…). While I’m not a fan of low rates, who decides which rates are acceptable? $10 per hour in certain parts of the US is a good wage. It’s not up to me to decide it isn’t. Now, I can pick and choose the jobs I feel offer good wages for me, but I’m not the one to determine what another person feels is a decent wage.
I do believe there are those who take advantage, $2 gigs for example. We won’t post those here. I do promise not to post scams, term paper mills or jobs offering peanuts. The beautiful thing about the Internet is that you don’t have to stay at a blog you don’t like.
Congratulations on getting such a high wage. Perhaps you’d like to let everyone here know where and how you find those tasty gigs?
Deb
Dear Deb,
I enjoyed your video blog. Will you be using more video in the future? Is it difficult? Will you ever show your face?
Thanks for all you do,
Jennifer
Hi Jennifer,
I started using video for several of my blogs this week and I’m really enjoying it. I especially like it for product reviews because it really shows my visitors what a product looks like and how it works.
I use an inexpensive Flip camera and it’s surprisingly easy to use, edit and upload. Do plan on seeing more video posts more often. As for whether or not you’ll see my face, that I’m not sure of. I’ve never been confident about my appearance, so we’ll see.
Thanks so much for your interest,
Deb
Posted
on
Friday, April 11th, 2008 at 6:46 pm under
As always it’s so “delightful” to be reminded of the people who lose all sense of propriety and etiquette when they can hide behind an email address.
April 11th, 2008 at 6:54 pmWow, lots of people like that phrase “talking out your a$$.” How original! I personally prefer conversing from my posterior, but who am I to say.
If EVERYONE agreed with everyone else all the time, life would be tremendously boring. So I like the difference of opinions that I see on Deb’s site.
$10 an hour in northern Vermont is an exceptional wage. Those who manage to have jobs, many are losing them left, right and center, average about $10 an hour around here. My mom earns $8 with no benefits right now and before her previous banking job went to India - she was earning $11 an hour after more than seven years on the job. I love if the letter writer go post the $50 an hour jobs he/she managed to find and REALLY gets paid for them. The highest paying gig I have right now still owes me money from the beginning of March and that’s a legit company. I find the lower paying jobs pay on time without hassle.
RE: Paid Job Boards. I paid for a membership to Telecommuting Jobs and have managed to land two jobs that more than covered my yearly fee, so I was lucky. I had a paid membership to iFreelance but I didn’t find it to be worth my time. I’d constantly lose bids to people willing to work for less than a penny per word.
April 11th, 2008 at 7:19 pmAnyone else think Joe Blow & Not A Fan are one and the same?
As for Lacey, your advice is good but I think we also need to consider this from the POV of a person with less experience and less confidence. At first, you’re bound to think that every job is beyond you. Just evaluate the job and its requirements, think up the worse case scenario, and if you’re reasonably sure you can handle it give it a try. Early on I cringed at most assignments, but now when doubt creeps in I remind myself of that and of my many happy clients and push through. I almost always find out I was right!
April 11th, 2008 at 7:20 pmOdd, it always seemed to me that the feedback was generally pretty positive…which makes me think Joe Blow only read the comments for like…one post.
Ah well, he’s missing out!
April 11th, 2008 at 7:56 pmre: Lacey,
This spring I had a piece published in a small,local magazine and recently applied for my first gig online (I don’t know about that gig yet, but I know it will be something I enjoy). I knew almost right away that these jobs were something I could do, something I was qualified for, AND something I thought I would like. This came only after over a year of researching and going through job boards. These two pieces were based on life experience of being a woman and a mother, but I also keep my eye out for writing assignments in the education field, since that was my profession before I decided to stay at home.
as for Joe Blow and Not a Fan: Let’s just all remember that profanity is the linguistic tool of the inarticulate.
April 11th, 2008 at 7:56 pmJoe Blow, thanks to Debbie, I now am becoming a regular freelancer for a magazine that pays nicely. The income so far has helped me pay past-due rent, electric bills and to get propane. And in Michigan in the winter time, propane is needed.
If you can’t talk without resorting to profanity, refrain from this forum until you advance out of adolescence.
I’ve used Gofreelance in the past and, frankly, was extremely dissatisfied. Only a handful of gigs ever came up, and the ones I applied to I never heard back from. A friend who is a staff writer for People magazine speaks very highly, though, if Media Bistro. You have to pay there too, but if you’re a talented writer, it’s worth it.
As far as getting gigs, a lot of it has to do with having–in strict moderation–an ego. Believe in yourself and believe that you’re the best candidate for a job. Period. And that you can prove it with your resume, cover letter and samples. Believing in yourself is also a message spread by a famous Israeli-American. Chaim Witz was born in poverty in Israel, the son of Hungarian Jews (one of which was a Holocaust survivor). Chaim moved to America, became a musician and businessman. He’s better known by his professional name–Gene Simmons.
April 11th, 2008 at 8:06 pmYour = possessive adjective, as in “Let’s go to your house.”
You’re = contraction of “you” and “are,” as in
April 11th, 2008 at 8:20 pm“Instead, discuss why you’re right for the job and include relevant writing samples.”
Its so amazing to me when negative commenters choose to belittle a site/blog that provides free, helpful advice and information. I suspect they do it just to get everyone in a tizzy.
April 11th, 2008 at 8:33 pmI have a question that I’d like to pose…
I wrote a batch of articles back in early February. I was paid since then and was told they were fine by the person who hired me to write them. Turns out she was sending the articles to someone else who now wants them all rewritten. She wanted the articles from a “for” standpoint and I wrote them from an “against” standpoint as that is how I felt. Had she said this to start with, I wouldn’t be in this situation.
First, I no longer have the original files, once I’ve waited four weeks and have not heard anything, I copy and paste them to emails and store them in Yahoo where they don’t take up room on my computer. So I’ll have to go in and copy and paste and then reformat everything.
Additionally, I have a full workload now. I don’t have time to rewrite all ten of these now and am about to head on vacation on top of it.
I’m curious on what others think - is it reasonable to ask for edits two months later after approval has been given and payment has been submitted?
April 11th, 2008 at 8:36 pmI applaud your measured responses to those emails. There are some angry people out there! You’re a good sport, Deb.
In re: to the first email, I agree that there are some jobs you just know are the right fit. It helps to know what your strengths are.
April 11th, 2008 at 8:39 pmIt honestly amazes me that people come to these boards looking to instigate things. Deb, I think you handled those two emails beautifully, but I almost wish you wouldn’t post them. It kind of brings down the good that you do when you have to deal with petulant individuals who can’t think of anything more intelligent to say, so they result to three- and four-letter words. *sigh* My blood pressure is on the rise!
At any rate, I for one love this board. On occasion there are things people say that I don’t agree with, but I think the diversity is what really makes this board work. I have also enjoyed the friendly, good-nature of most of the readers and the willingness to help others. All in all, this is a great blog Deb and I appreciate all that you do, and what you must put up with to do it!
Great advice out there today, guys! Hope YOU’RE (let me make sure I get this right for the nitpicker in the third row ;)) all having a wonderful Friday with great plans for the weekend!
Cheers!
April 11th, 2008 at 9:07 pm@Ann,
I would politely explain to the individual that you have a full workload at the moment and as you had already received final approval and payment for those articles, you’ll have to decline the rewrite at this time. If you’re like me and would feel a little guilty about it, despite the fact that there is nothing to feel guilty about, then I would see if they have time to wait as other projects have immediate deadlines.
However, I’m of the opinion that if they wanted the articles a specific way then they should have made that clear up front and not given you approval. It does seem a little unreasonable to expect revision after two months.
Incidentally, I think you would be better suited to purchase an external hard drive to store your hard copies on. I imagine that filing them away in folders through your email can be tedious when something like this arises. It really would save you time and they’re not terribly expensive.
April 11th, 2008 at 9:13 pmI always thought a good blog created a sense of community so that online members could engage in dialogue about topics of shared interest. Am I wrong? If that’s the case, who flippin’ cares if those contributing to the dialogue disagree? I mean, Deb presents her opinion and then asks us about how we feel, thus engaging her community.
I always thought that’s what a successful blogger did. Apparently Joe Blow thinks differently.
By the way, I adore a good cheeseball…especially with some of those buttery butterfly shaped crackers.
April 11th, 2008 at 9:16 pmSpeaking of external hard drives, stay tuned because we’re going to be giving away two different external hard drives - one here and one at network blogging tips.
I just have to think of how to make you work for it.
April 11th, 2008 at 9:17 pmRe: Negative mail - I always hope that by posting the negative emails it will show the people who send them how bitter or hurtful they sound and maybe they’ll stop.
Hey…a girl can dream.
April 11th, 2008 at 9:18 pm@Kristy - Thanks for the advice. She’s really sticking to her guns that I owe her the rewrites. I do have a problem with guilt, but I think right now I’m more upset that she’s now throwing stuff that is her opinion and saying I should have included it in the articles. I’m half tempted to write back and say that I’ll do the rewrites but need to add in a mindreading fee.
April 11th, 2008 at 9:27 pmAnn,
To me this sounds like an entirely separate writing gig: meaning you can choose whether or not to take the job, and meaning you should get paid for redoing the articles. Unless you are under some obligation or contract that says you have to rework articles without pay, I don’t understand why you should have to do all the work again for free when it was already accepted. This may be a situation where you have to stick to your guns and not be taken advantage of. Who is to say she won’t want yet another rewrite if you rework your articles?
You could decide to take up the job after vacation, and let her know you’ll make time for it then-if you still want to work for her, that is.
April 11th, 2008 at 9:32 pmI always love when people take time to tell you how much you suck. Here’s a thought: Don’t spend one minute more visiting the site and go spread that sunshine someplace else.
You rock, Deb! Keep up the great work.
April 11th, 2008 at 9:42 pm@Ann - I agree with Kristy. Once the articles have been approved, you should not be expected to rewrite them.
I had a client who asked for changes to a few articles, despite the fact that they were written exactly as requested (the client even agreed they were). After making the changes as he requested, he asked me to scratch them and start all over again.
I politely told him that I would have to be paid an additional fee for the rewrites, as I had already provided him with what he had requested - TWICE. He actually agreed that I had done what he asked for, but still wanted rewrites for free.
I stuck to my guns. Since I had won this project through a bid board, I took a bit of a hit on my feedback, but I can afford one score that’s not a perfect 10. ( :
I also hire writers for some of my clients, so I can see things from your client’s POV. Once I approve the work from the writer, however, I feel it is my responsibility to make changes if the client is unhappy. If I am uncertain about whether or not the client will be happy, I let the writer know that I will be waiting on feedback from the client.
I also always make sure the writer gets paid, regardless of how things turn out between me and the cient. Recently, I had one client that subcontracted to me. She approved the article, but the client “changed his mind” and decided he didn’t want it, so I didn’t get paid. Unfortunately, it was a very specific article for a product, so I can’t even try to submit it to AC to try to get at least a little bit of money for my efforts. In my opinion, my arrangement was with my client and she still should have paid me. It is up to her to work things out with her client in order to receive payment. If he doesn’t pay her, she should take the hit. That is the risk she takes when she subcontracts work to other writers. That is the philosophy I use when I subcontract work - my writers always get paid even if I don’t.
Anyway, I guess I got a little off topic! ( :
April 11th, 2008 at 9:52 pmi have to say, i dont understand these people who supposedly hate you & your website yet seemingly spend a good amount of time here & waste their productivity working on whiny e-mails to you about it. there’s so many other online resources to use instead if they find yours lacking so very much — why waste time with negativity? very weird to me. in any case, i appreciate your site a great deal & find it extremely helpful! and i’m positive these haters are in the very-slim minority.
April 11th, 2008 at 10:29 pm@Elizabeth - I appreciate your viewpoint actually. Apparently this “editor” who was subcontracting her work hadn’t proofreading the articles to start. So I made a mistake and used scrap instead of scrape and missed it when I proofread my own articles. That was one of the many complaints, an easy fix, but apparently I was needed to correct it personally.
I ended up talking to my other “bosses” and asking for delays. The person who subcontracted me this job demanded I do the rewrites or give her the money she paid me for these 10 and 40 other articles that she submitted, I’m assuming without proofreading since she says she now has her “experts” looking them over. I still don’t get how she thinks she can demand the money back when she should have edited them, and they are nothing like the vague “write whatever you want” assignment to start.
Rather than deal with this hassle any longer, I opted to rewrite them today and then work this weekend instead on the higher paying projects. I want to have FUN in Maine and having something like this weighing on the back of my mind just wasn’t an option anymore.
April 11th, 2008 at 11:04 pm@Ann - Well, you are nicer than me! I wouldn’t take too kindly to her trying to force you to return the money. Unless you have some sort of unusual contract together, I don’t see how she could make such a demand. Good luck!
April 11th, 2008 at 11:43 pmAs for pay sites, I tried Guru and thought it completely sucked. The same job poster can post unlimited times which means 2-3 people post their “will you write 50 articles for $2 apiece” ads over and over again. I didn’t think that the majority of jobs were high quality and I believe that many of the projects I bid on, I didn’t get because most of the people on that site are willing to underbid by A LOT to get the job. Just my 2-cents.
April 11th, 2008 at 11:56 pm@ Deb: I look forward to reading the letters you post, and I hope the negative ones are in the minority. I agree, they are hurtful, and I don’t understand why someone would do that. If someone doesn’t like the blog, they don’t have to come back, that’s all.
I have a suspicion that there are enough people who do like this place that you will be blogging for a long time to come.
April 12th, 2008 at 12:23 am@Ann G
My 2 cents–if they were approved and you were paid and now 2 months have passed, you should be getting an additional fee to rewrite them. And you shouldn’t let her threats of making you return the money scare you, she’s just bullying you into getting rewritten articles for free! Institute a clear policy for acceptance & rewrites. Having said that, I know how you feel about getting it off your mind so you can enjoy yourself, too, but I’d definately give preference to deserving clients who you want to come back!
@Deb–should we be writing you friendly letters so you have something nice to post?
April 12th, 2008 at 1:36 amThanks to all.
@Mary - I do have a rewrite policy but never thought I’d need to put a time limit on it. So obviously I need to add that now. After 3 years freelance writing for money, I’ve never had someone come back more than a week later looking for edits.
Here’s how things turned out. I wish now I hadn’t rewritten them. Turns out she was using them not to meet her goals as a contractor but because she’s re-selling them as PLR content. She’s had them up for sale since the end of March, so if they really needed rewriting, she never would have put them up for sale. I’ve drafted my letter to Paypal now and plan to charge her for the rewrites knowing this information.
I have to say, I’ll never do business with this site again. If anyone would like her name and her business name I’d be happy to share privately so that you can avoid the same hassle. My email is dhf7230@yahoo.com
Again, thanks to all the advice. I’m off to enjoy another beer and then go out with my brother for a nice dinner out!
April 12th, 2008 at 3:24 amHi Deb, Jodee and Everyone
Life has been keeping me busy however I do stop by daily to view job postings and to read the comments. I do appreciate everything you do here, and the leads that Jodee finds for us. I would not be part time freelancing if it weren’t for this site. Most of my paying work has been from FWJ.
Thank you for this site and the community.
April 13th, 2008 at 7:10 amAnn,
Yes, it was unreasonable for them to ask for this two months after the fact, but it does happen. I had a magazine do something similar to me a few years ago. Gave me a hurry up assingment week of July 4, when few people are around to interview. I nevertheless completed it, though only with industry consultants and no bankers (called several contacts I had built up over 10 years, none were available that week).
They sat on article for three weeks. If I hadn’t gone to an Internet cafe while on vacation to clean up e-mail, that would have been that. But there was an urgent message that more bank sources were needed. This was sent late on a Wednesday (so day was over for all intents and purposes), and revised copy was due Friday. So a family visit to the headwaters of the Mississippi involved going there, dashing across it and heading back. They liked the revised copy, paid me for it, but never gave me another assignment.
Gone through similar Herculean efforts to please editors at last minute, with no give back on their part regarding future work.
I probably would have done what you did, but would stipulate in the future some type of parameters for revisions. In the future, it may also be worthwhile to ask if they have a kill fee, which would be less than the orginal amount, but would let you retain something for work done and make it a little more palatable to drop it and enjoy the vacation without putting other clients on hold.
April 13th, 2008 at 8:15 amHi Deb,
April 13th, 2008 at 8:48 amI haven’t commented before but I wanted to say that I think you do a fantastic job on FWJ and it’s one of the few sites I *must* visit every day.
I know you’re tough enough to realise that the negative letters aren’t worth getting upset over, but I know how it would make me feel (I’m not so tough) and I still think it’s nice to get reassurance sometimes. So I’ll make sure you get some!
I love the site, I love your posts - particularly because you do have your own opinion and don’t just tow the line - and Jodee does a great job providing leads as well.
FWJ really makes me feel like there is a community out there for freelance writers, a hard task to achieve when most of us work alone at home!
So thank you, for an excellent blog that I can always count on.
@Ann -Oohhh I am irritated for you! This sounds similar to the problem I am having in regards to getting the balance of money owed to me from work I did 8 months ago.
Long story short, I helped out another writer last summer, quoted a low price so I could just get the monthly bills paid and am still collecting the money from her.
When I decided to get tough and enlist the help of Angela Hoy, she got mad. She has done all sorts of nasty things including telling me that my writing was bad, she had to rewrite it and a slew of other things. The thing is the whole time I wrote for her - whenever I completed a batch, she asked if I wanted more. The work I did for her was worth at least $700 but I am only trying to collect $171… In eight months she never told me her “true” opinion of my work until I started asking questions about the change in payment arrangements.
I wouldn’t have done the rewrites. Unlike you, I have all the original work I did - and most was easily found online - in my words. I also saved our correspondence too. I’m not letting this drop. Angela Hoy has posted it to Whispers and Warnings and I have it on my blog as well. People who have a change of heart or mind months after the fact… that’s on them. You are not responsible for it.
April 13th, 2008 at 9:16 am@Nikki-I just read the story. I find it really, really hard to believe that this person can only afford to send a dollar at a time.
One thing I’ve learned from this - subcontracting work just isn’t something I want to stay in. There is one person I do subcontract work for and she’s been great for the three years I’ve known her. I’ll stick working for her, but I won’t bother taking on any additional subcontract work. I’ll stick to writing for websites that are under development.
April 13th, 2008 at 6:14 pm@Ann - I agree. She does have more to send. I received a paypal payment of $5 the other day. It doesn’t do her good to behave this way. I continue to maintain what I’ve said all along about the situation - friends or not, this was a service that I provided and deserve to be paid in a reasonable amount of time. No problems were cited at the time so eight months later doesn’t carry much weight with me. Especially when I can find them online.
I don’t know that I wouldn’t subcontract anymore - but I will be more cautious in how the arrangement is set up: with clear conditions and expectations for both parties.
Good luck to us both right? ;-D
April 13th, 2008 at 6:35 pm